Twice in one week?

I wonder if CONSTITUTION's skipper ran his car off a bridge while driving drunk, and left his passenger-- a young lady not his wife-- to drown while he saved himself?? It has been known to happen in the Bay State.

SWOs eat their own and I wouldn't rule out politics as a reason. There are some really great swos and then the other half are some really nasty backstabbing bastards out there who will throw you down the river to advance their pathetic lives. Be very wary of this when interacting with SWOs, you might end up down the river.

In PCO training they take great pains to point out the things that will keep you from having a band at both changes of command:

1) Women (They used to have a sense of humor about this-not anymore)
2) Money (Misuse thereof)
3) Safety (Not being)

If you look at reliefs for cause one of these 3 reasons is almost always there. I'd be curious which one is it here.

Let me go out on the thin limb to the point where the outer bark begins to creak and pop,

In time of war,the great eyes of the Navy military SEE ALL wish to relate the seen in a way that conveys to those that are seen a specific sea change (if you will indulge me.) In what seems a far and wide approach to those without knowledge of how the military works very specific places are chosen to bring the hammer of the needed sea change down in such a way that the vibration from the blow(s) spreads like large ripples on a pond,
and those within the pond in due course, sit up and take notice. Very effective...in a time of war...and we are at war!

Sh** Bull Maybe too ZEN.

Now to scotch...

Richard

OK, Richard, if you're out on a limb, I'll get out on the twig. What if these two were Asked, and Told?

Shudder...

Skippy, how about alcohol? There also seems to be an emphasis there, too, that it is evil (which it is not).

Hhhmmm,

Could be something there bull, maybe forgot the
old sayin, "What ya do on the beach, STAYS on
the beach!"

Richard

I have no thoughts on the Higgins matter, but the USS Constitution situation interests me greatly. I spent many Sundays there having grown up within a quarter mile of the Charlestown Navy Yard. I too have wondered if it was "zipper" or "liquor" incident. However, today my Dad (QM3 USS Norris DD 859) raised a point I hadn't considered. The Constitution is a very political billet. There is always demand for events on the ship. The rare cruises have lotteries to determine who gets a spot. Perhaps Cmdr. Graves did not make himself or the ship available to the wrong petulant politician. My Dad said that there was something different about the command structure for the Constitution. Cmdr. Graves may have unwittingly done something politically dangerous.
Until I hear differently, I will continue to think well of Cmdr. Graves. He and I have the same parish priest and he is spoken of very highly in my parish. It will also be interesting to see what they do with Cmdr. Graves down at SWOS.

Bullnav-with the exception of DUI there are few times that simply getting a snootful will get you fired. Now I was fortunate during my CO tour with having some good JO's who took on the "Skipper" watch. They got me back to the ship early a couple of times-for which they have my eternal gratitude. ( It also helped to have bosses who were even bigger liberty risks than I was).

Get drunk and grab some ass though-STFB.

I did know of a case in the 80's though were a DCAG missed a flight with a 3 star because he was passed out in his room. His firing was quick and brutal. Gotta know your environment.

Maybe Cmdr.Graves told the Vice Admiral that the Constitution could do a better job patroling the Straits of Hormuz than the Admirals ships! Just a thought.lol

I'm looking at my last couple of posts and
shinin the bright light of the maggie post on
said verb-age and the phrase a$$-hat comes to mind. Who am I to cast stones on the character of an officer of the line? Besides she brings an
interesting angle which begs only more questions.
If only I could be a fly on the wall in the
C.O.B's cabin. There the truth be told....

Richard

SWOs eat their own and I wouldn't rule out politics as a reason. There are some really great swos and then the other half are some really nasty backstabbing bastards out there who will throw you down the river to advance their pathetic lives. Be very wary of this when interacting with SWOs, you might end up down the river.

I would put that number at significantly less than half. Usually the SWOs who like to tell everyone that "SWOs eat their young" are the most guilty of doing so.

In nearly nine years commissioned service, I've met exactly one guy like this and it shows in his ability to lead. Guys like that are not very successful in my personal experience. Sea Bass, if you're a SWO (or even if you're not), it's a shame if that has been your experience.

Regarding the firings, I concur with above: usually due to zipper/liquor/money control. CDR Graves' situation doesn't sound like either of those, but for both COs, I think it would be prudent to withold judgement until the facts come to light.

have heard several comment that for the DDG CO it may have most likely been #1 on the list above, and those passing the rumors don't seem too suprised. makes you wonder, why throw away all those years and ruin your retirement, what an idiot.

Anon,

Because it is a man's God given right to screw his life up over a woman! Plus, when another part of the anatomy says, "Move over! I'm driving!" all bets are off.

In the old Navy they had more of a sense of humor about such things. So long as you were discrete and it did not involve another service member, people left well enough alone. That, IMHO, may be yet another thing the "Old Navy" got right.

An infantile, immature, and weak response - it's not even macho enough to be called sexist, it's just stupid, nobody says crap like that anymore, unless you're like 80+. Only somebody who has no true combat experience - with a real enemy (not your ex-wife) - would say that. Neither the Old Navy nor the New Navy had it right and they still don't: in this DDG COs case, it did involve another service member and it's not his first time - he had no business being in command. He has a wife and young children waiting in SD. He's an idiot, pure and simple. The Navy never had a sense of humor or sense of discretion about stuff like this and nobody will ever let stuff like this be 'left well enough alone'. Get real and quit defending pussies like him.

"Get real and quit defending pussies like him"

So says anonymous! LOL

Do you feel spanked Skippy?

Maggie,

I've been thrown out of better bars than his.......

I was not defending the DDG CO. However I hate seeing people like Anon get all pompous and holier than though about these things. Nine times out of 10 that I have seen when these type of zipper things happen, there is blame on both sides. People tend to paint is as all the guys fault-its usually not.

Anon, I had a skipper who had a wife who was a total shrew. Yea he played around and in today's Navy he would have probably gotten sacked. He was still a great leader though and a great pilot. He was light years ahead of the supposedly "moral" bible thumper who was his XO-who could not lead his way out of a paper bag. And who could not fly well either.

Don't lecture me pal. I suspect I've been around the block a few more times than you have. My response is not immature-it just reflects reality.

Glass houses and stones and all that........

Anon,

One other point. Based on the information you provided-it is about who he boinked, not whether he sampled out side the house. I seem to recall pointing out that if the hired help was involved that gave everything a different flavor.

As an old chief of mine once told me,
" Sir, there are plenty of women out there. Never, ever, f**k the hired help!"

Guess you find that immature too. I find it to be sage advice from a great American.
Enjoy life in prison the new Navy. Me I'll take the old Navy any day of the week.

I have combat experience too. Whatever that proves..................

Just a thought from an old retired enlisted. I worked for one C.O. that was relieved for cause, among other things he thought he was driving an LST instead of the Lexington in Boston Harbor,I'll leave it at that. I find it hard to believe in this day and age of reduced numbers that senior officers proclivities are not already WIDELY known. What are the command screening boards doing, I blame them for many of these "embarassments" for not doing their jobs! How the devil an air squadron C.O can be relieved for lack of confidence 2 weeks AFTER he assumed command is beyond me, where was CAG the previous 18 months when this guy was X.O.? All the good officer I ever knew and some not so good aspired to command. The screening process for the very most part worked back then, what is going on now? I think if I were up for that coveted Charlie Oscar billet I would have second thoughts. Just some white aht thoughts

Being a mustang (from three generations of mustangs), all of us having had successful combat command, definitely not Bible thumpers or holier than 'thow', even we 'hired help' can see you're not qualified to claim you've been around the block more than us. You are defending weakness in the officer corps and making excuses for it. Why let your boorish rant above prove anon's original assertion? Go back to sleep, Rip.

We agree with retired AC1 above, obviously not with Skippy, since he still thinks it's cute and fun to defend the values of COs who mess with us 'hired help'.

Skippy - If you are ever in Boston, drop me a line I will take you someplace we can't get thrown out of! Again we agree, it's the frat, not the sex that matters.

Mustang - If I may, Skippy's just being wise and I don't think he was trying (too hard) to be offensive. I don't see where Skippy's and AC1's posts reflect any significant conflict. I agree with AC1, command screening process should have weeded faulty COs out before they got into position.
I agree with Skippy. I think besides saying frat outweighs (simple?)adultery....he's also saying that Anon painted to CO of the Higgins as a total bastid. Skippy pointed out that in these situations, there is usually fault on both sides. Both AC1 and Skippy have valid points.

Anon just sounds either a little to close to the actual situation or the story hit too close to home.

Adultery. Fraternization. The sex. Laughing about it and saying talking body parts is 'just part of the Navy'. Screwing the hired help. Well-educated and informed Command Boards. Retired homos telling us that it's all gonna just be good. ...Yeah, that the Navy I want to be in.

Seriously, I think before everyone gets on a high horse here people need to remember a few things.

The fact that CO's are getting fired is actually a good thing. It shows that the system of checks and balances is working and that there are boundaries that cannot be exceeded. One should be more worried if a year or two went by and there were no firings.

Second, I think its important to remember that the people that are being talked about are human beings. Who make mistakes. Some are more hurtful than others-but anyone who assumes that CO's will always be perfect is missing something. Especially in today's environment.

There are no shortage of folks who are willing to drop a dime on a CO at the drop of a hat. People tend to forget that-and some CO's tend to forget that the rules are in place partially to protect them from that kind of environment. Some people do the wrong thing for the right reasons and some just think they cannot get caught. And some times they do get caught. So the system is working if you ask me.

Selection boards are not omnipotent. They look at records, take into account community reputation and make the best decisions they can. Sometimes they get it right. Sometimes they get it wrong. However I would submit 90% of the time they do alright. Sometimes good guys get passed over. Sometimes bad people are advanced to their level of incompetence. Its a human system-its never going to be perfect.

One needs to remember these things when casting judgment on the person who has been relieved. And whether you like it or not-sex is going on in the ranks. One has only to look at the CNO's daily ops page to see that. Look how many unit sitreps for some sort of male/female-blue on blue happen every day across the Navy. It is a fact of life for better or for worse.

The same personality traits that make someone a good miltary person also put that at risk of making bad decisions at times. Also most O-5 CO's are between 36-44 at the time they have command. That's the same age that a majority of marriages break up and people make mid life decisions that cause mid-life crises. The Navy is not immune to the same things that go on in society as a whole.

Who your boss is plays a role too. Some bosses are spring loaded to pull the trigger some are not. That's a fact of life.

I had four commands including a Major Shore command. I watched people get fired and had to fire a CO once. It was for somethng clear cut involving money and the guy knew hehad been caught and took it like a man. He was still able to serve out his career and retire and in the end that too was fair.( He never promoted and got a lot of "bad deals afterwards). Many years of good service should count for something too.

Its not a black and white world out there, no matter how much people pretend that it is. People make decisons and they live with them. And they live with the consequences of those decisions.

Lecture me if it makes you feel good, Mustang. Does not mean I don't know how the game is played. 95% of CO's get a band at both their changes of command. That's the real sucess story. Not the guys who get fired. Its you who needs to go back to sleep.