For God and Country

Good troop doing an outstanding job. God bless him.

If it does come off as a putdown of him, the military and the Iraq campaign, it won't be because of anything he actually said--as demonstrated by this good interview:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16096369/

'Every time I turn on the news, I see CNN or another news station talkin' about what is going on in Iraq, and there is always something about it that is not truthful...there is always some bit that is completely taken out of context or something like that...and for me and the other Marines that are over there, it's very aggravating'.

Ok..I watched the show, but I missed one 5 minute segment. So, correct me if I'm wrong, but I never saw the clip on this website on the show. Was this segment on the show(ie it was the 5 minute segment I missed) or did MSLSD leave this out period?

Does anyone know if it will be run again on MSNBC? I checked on msnbc.com but there was no mention of a rerun there.

I'll shoot an email off and see what I can find out Mule.

I went home at lunch and hit up my DVR sched...Tuesday, Oct. 12th @ 11 p.m. Eastern on MSNBC (thanks for checking for me anyway John).

Double check your TV listings on Tuesday 12/12 - my local says 8:00 P.M. on MSNBC (I'm Eastern Standard Time).

I saw this show. Maybe it's just me and maybe it's because I was watching it with my Vietnam Vet husband who kept saying things like 'What a whinner' all the way through it, but I was not that impressed.

I definitly had the feeling the guy is selling his story.

The part that stands out in my mind is him telling how he was trained to be a sniper just cause he's a good shot, but nobody trained him how to deal with killing someone. He went on to talk about how the person he shot may have been a father, a son, had dreams for the future, etc.

I have known several snipers and know a couple who are currently deployed. I have never heard one talk like that. I've never heard one work that hard to 'get into the skin' of the person they are shooting. Most disassociate from it and either don't talk about it or work through it as 'doing their job.'

I don't know if I'm being fair to the guy. I can't imagine what it is like to do that job. But it has to be done and going to war involves killing people. Every generation has to face that. I just had a problem with him being so sympathetic with the enemy and so sensitive about how he was dealing with it since he's gotten out of the service.

I didn't see this clip in the show either. Maybe it's a montage of scenes? I don't know. I missed part of the show too.

I wonder if a book like "On Combat" by David Grossman might not be usefull for dealing with the baggage that goes with killing someone?

Didn't see a lot to complain about except that the narrator used the phrase "dubious honor" (or dubious something-else) when mentioning that the marine had the longest kill (1,200 something yards) in Iraq. Dubious?
I was surprised that the marine didn't understand the threat of shrapnel until he had experienced some IEDs. The marines have a pretty good reading list of histories and biographies. He would have noticed a lot of relevant info in those. Including dealing with the reality of killing people and making life and death decisions. I wonder if he read those books?

Gee,
Why doesn't it surprise me that this clip wouldn't have been on the show? It's probably a montage of scenes to paint a picture.

My TiVo says it's on again at 2:00 AM Wed (like, in less than an hour and a half). No other showings listed on the TiVo guide.

He's not complaining. He's telling you his side of the story in hopes that some ungrateful Americans can fully appreciate what he and his fellow marines are going through to protect us and our families. When someone is over there they act as a robot, but when they come back and become a civilan with nothing but time to think about what happened overseas it's only natural for someone with a heart to think about their actions and feel some kind of remorse.

I had missed earlier showings of this, so I tried to TIVO it 21 Feb 2007. But MSNBC showed some Anna Nicole Smith nonsense instead. Aaaargh.

I would like to personaly thank Matt Orth and all who are fighting a war that seems anymore to be meaningless.I hate it that our military men and women are being wounded and killed and the media is only giving us the story they want us to hear.if Matt wants to sell his story let him!we owe this to him.If you were not there with Matt you have nothing to say.The only thig i wish i could change out of this war is that i could not be by his side with my sniper rifle.TIM NANCE PLAINFIELD, ILLINOIS

to all those claiming this man is a whinner,its funny how you judge ,and whether you new a sniper or not,you never walked in those boots,muchless put an enertyl scope to your eye,etc....your emotions as a human aren't the only ones,Matt Orth did his time ,engaged enemies while you went to walmart,and there is nothing wrong with having some feeling after all that,you aint carlos hathcock so shut the fuck up and say thanks and it is alright and hope you the best in the future Matthew Orth,this is called support not a pissing contest,especially from the vietnam era,fuck off whoever wrote this,

to arthur,he said he went from worring about bullets to worring about bombs and ied;s,especially on his last tour where they were more common,if you survived a suicide bombing and an ied, bullets would seem not as dangerous,since he would probably operate an engage targets that most ak's couldn't reach,when concealeled in a hide or at his ffp,bullets wouldn't really be a factor for a fineley tuned cost effective killer like him.....but i bet you would be concerned with any explosive that nearly kills you and did kill your people write in front of you....you sound like a reporter...keep reading your books and think you know how dubious combat is.....why didnt you go out 1245 yards yourself and check tha kill?he survived 3 tours,i doubt,or am very dubious you could last 4 days,much less shoot strait at 300 yards.you sound like a fucking moron.....

I am using someone else's computer, but I would like to thank Matt Orth and all of the other fine young men who beleive "in God & country" especially on this Veteran's Day. Being from a military family has given me the knowledge of how great this country is, and it is due to the fact that we have had these highly courages and brave men since the signers of the Declaration of Independence until the present. My sorrow lies in the fact that the media has always been tainted and we are not allowed the truth of these men's bravery. Ignorance is not bliss, I feel sorry for those that keep themselves sheltered from the truth, it is truly the loss of knowledge, that endangers the American public.

It's a shame this turned out to a pissing contest of who supported Matts issues and who thought he was just complaining. It doesn't matter if your a sniper, a supply clerk or a grunt on the ground, war is war. Seems you folks lost sight of that. The lady named Beth mentioned that her vietnam vet husband said Matt was whinner, to some extent he's right.Iraq and Afganistan don't even begin to compare to Vietnam.(By the way,thank you Beth's husband) The bigger picture is this. Going to war changes peoples outlook on all sorts of things, especialy for young men and woman who aren't mentaly prepared.
Training, even given by the most capable of people, can only take you so far. Thousands of our troops have walked in Matts shoes. Gone to war, seen or done things that they couldn't have imagined doing before, then had to return home to what was once considered a "normal" existance.
It's easy to say: "Poor Matt. he should have known better. Anyone who's seen a movie or watched tv in the past 40 knows what a sniper does. He knew what he was getting himself into. He should have listened a little harder to his instructors... blah, blah, blah". I saw the show just like you folks did and what I saw was a kid that did a job he wan't mentaly prepared for and now he's paying the price. I would hope he's getting counseling or that the Marines or his family suggested he do so. I notice that was never covered or talked about in the interview. I'm not a shrink but it's obvious he's a little shell shocked. Good job Matt, now go get some help so you can move on with your life.

Hey Matt,
You are your brothers keeper....and you keep us safe. You guys make sure we have another day with our loved ones. You let me sleep at night...after kissing my 4 kids goodnight...when you go without.Just remember...War Is War. Its them or us. Thats all. This is WAR. There are no regrets in war. I AM A MOTHER...I raise my kids to be the best they can be...with the best of my abilities. YOU ARE OUR FREEDOM...you protect us and give us life!
shoop215@yahoo.com

I agree with samantha's comment dec. 28/06...some people are just ignorant and judgemental...some people really do have hearts...people don't realize that...everyone has a family that gets affected by the war...it goes both ways for both sides...of course I'm all for America...my cousin is deploying again this Sept...but don't judge a person who has an opinion and feelings about something...everyone's entitled to that...

I see all these posts about Matt Orth, and whether he’s a whiner or a hero. Weak or just been through hell.
I’ll tell you something interesting about him and other snipers I personally know. I’m a K-9 dog handler and I lived with the snipers in Husayba. I personally knew Orth along with Schaeffer, Berdine, Cunha, Jones, Erwin, Senior, Lockridge, Quinlan, and Eddie Ryan. Orth was a good guy, a pretty boy, nick named “GQ.”
Whether he’s weak or not, I’ll not decide. But as a reference I could mention that the same platoon he was in suffered an IED attack that involved a fire truck and two other trucks all driving into the base and detonating. The fire truck detonated just outside our living quarters and sent Jones to the hospital with shrapnel to the chest.
In addition, a friendly fire incident in which Eddie Ryan was shot in the head and the entire team was under fire for more than a minute of sustained machine gun fire. Ryan survived, but barely. Two of his team, Senior and Schaeffer bandaged his head as he leaked profuse amounts of blood all over them and his gear. They saved his life, but wouldn’t even know for sure for days. Believe me, it looked like a horror story when they washed their gear off after they returned.
They dealt with a Sgt that none of them trusted, who had only been sent there because his Lt, and SSgt couldn’t deal with his showboating and stories and wanted away with him. The Ryan family was lied to both by the Brass and the Sgt who was partially responsible for the botched mission due to his failure to follow sniper employment. The stress the team was under was intense. They each needed someone like a shrink to talk to.
I’m not one, but I was the best some of them had. All of them except one cried. I didn’t personally talk to everyone of them about it, but you wouldn’t believe the stress of being in those conditions for months on end.
The sniper platoon killed more insurgents than the rest of Camp Gannon combined on that deployment. I still remember when they killed their first insurgent on the deployment.
It was the first contact of the battalion, and I was riding in an AAV. An insurgent stepped out of an alley we had just passed with a RPG on his shoulder leveled at the back of our APC. Schaeffer’s sniper team had been in position for hours waiting on our raid, and lucky for us. Erwin’s observer saw the man first and opened fire with his M-4. Coming under fire the insurgent ran and was dropped by a round through the chest from Erwin. They saved my life that day most likely, along with the rest of the Marines in that AAV.
I still remember when they came back from a patrol in which they had to wade through the open sewers of Husayba and then sit in a house all day, only to be recalled due to a mistake from the brass. Most of them had diarrhea and vomiting for a while.
They went out on their own, sometimes they didn’t even have med-evac support some nights. They went anyway. They aren’t super men, but they are men, and they deserve respect for things most of us will never see or do. None have received medals for their efforts in Husayba, except the purple heart.

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