Take a look at this post at Michael Bane’s place, and then take a look at the one immediately following.
There’s some substantial gray area here, and as much as I’d like to give the Iowa Guard at least an honorable mention for trying to get some realistic training (I can’t tell from the article whether this is pre-deployment stuff or just a Guard-specific exercise), I have to give it the thumbs-down. I’m going to assume that this is a state active duty or Title 32 event, but if this is a Title 10 exercise, I’d be screaming bloody murder.
Now, to frame my opinions properly, I’ve always thought that the ideal pre-deployment work-up for a unit headed overseas would be three months in any area of the US, urban or rural, that has experienced a significant natural disaster and where they could conduct a true prac-app on the full range of security and stability ops. Always operating in support of civil authorities, they could get real experience in dealing with local governments, NGOs, and a population denuded of its resources and normal routine. However, I know for a fact that this would never fly, and for a variety of good reasons too, so I’m not just knee-jerking against the Iowa guard.
The same things that bothered Bane bother me. NEVER LET ARMED AGENTS OF THE STATE SEARCH YOUR HOUSE WITHOUT A WARRANT– FOR PRETEND OR FOR REAL. Never.
What say you?
Seemed like reasonable training getting ready for Iraq. Door-to-door cordon and searches, etc. Nice concept… poor execution.
If the gov’t suddenly wanted to confiscate guns, the last military entity I’d want would be the Guard. They typically would be more sympathetic to the local populace.
I’d have the Army or the Marines do it. Small chance of their personnel being from whatever locale I’d be clamping down on. More likely to carry out their orders to the letter than a Guard unit.
Joel: Interesting. Not sure, though, that Marines would do it. The conditions that would give rise to such a situation are difficult to fathom, except to say it would be near-apocalytic. All bets would be off. Scary and sobering to consider.
A few years ago a Marine reserve unit in Ohio wanted to conduct MOUT training in Toledo but the liberal mayor would not allow it. This sounds like similar stuff. I really don’t think it is a dry run for prying guns from cold dead fingers. Cordon and search operations are a very important and very common thing whild deployed. It is unfortunate that the Iowa Guard could not find a suitable military training site, but I don’t think there is malicious intent behind this training. But I could be wrong, in which case, we are all screwed. After all, who whould have thought the police officers and guardsmen would have confiscated weapons from people in Louisiana after Katrina? And I sure hope my comment isn’t double posted. Cus’ then I’ll look lame.
The Marines helped out during the LA Riots when LAPD lost control of the situation. Now, I’ve heard only stories of what went on there, but I know for a fact that, if confronted by a hardcore thug, a Marine will not first consult his personal copy of the U.S. Constitution. He will simply aim center mass and apply a slow, deliberate squeeze.
Hardcore thug or not, a gangbanger is still an American citizen, right?
And observe the M-2 Bradley at Waco, clear as day on camera, rolling around while the compound burned. I know of no law enforcement entity that fields the M-2 Bradley or a 25mm Bushmaster cannon.
Military participation in domestic civil unrest is likely to become even more of a common occurrence. As a (now former) police officer, I can assure you that civil authorities would lose control of the situation if things got bad enough. We simply lack the manpower.
With the economy continuing in a steady dive towards oblivion, I fear the potential of what can occur in the worst-case scenarios.
ALL
Several issues here which I will explore in a separate post when I get home and have access to my computer. 1. Difference between Title 10 activities and Title 32. 2. More importantly a discussion on the Posse Comtatius Act which has great bearing on what the Title 10 forces regular Army etc and Reserve Component can do. When I use term RC in this case I am excluding National Guard.
Upfront: former Oklahoma Guardsman.
Something in the milk ain’t clean: there are plenty of training facilities, strategies, and resources available to even the poorest Guard unit that would have prevented this situation.
Having done Maneuver Rights Exercises in Germany, the rules are similar here: any damage done (“any” is very broad in definition), is paid for above and beyond the object’s actual value. For example: had the unit turned the local Wal-mart parking lot into a staging area, and given the likelihood of vehicle to leak petroleum, Wal-mart would be paid to clean up the mess to prevent an EPA fine, to pay for a new parking lot, and pay for all lost revenue because customers would not have easy access to the store.
So, from a financial standpoint: doing an MRA-type exercise in the USA is insane. Whether the funds come from Title 32 or Title 10, these types of exercises are almost impermissably expensive.
I don’t understand who was to be trained by this? The average citizen? Any training done by the Guard unit is noted and then dismissed by the Reserve Training Brigades – who must follow a training protocol approved by the supported unified command. So from a practical standpoint, this training made no sense. There are at least a dozen individual and collective tasks to be trained to competency BEFORE taking down a town.
All in all, the Iowa Guard earned itself an unforced black eye and the Limp Lanyard award for simulating a Jack-booted Thug.
While I can certainly understand there are some issues regarding privacy and damage to property, the Michigan Militia types who posted on the link scare me much more than the NG soldiers who have sworn an oath.
SF used to do similar training during ROBIN SAGE. I seem to remember a soldier got killed a few years ago by a cop who didn’t know soldiers with unloaded weapons were running around. That worries me far more than the idea that this is all a plan to take everyones hunting rifles away.
JV is correct, there was an incident in 2002 where a 1st LT was shot and killed and a SSgt was wounded. They had been pulled over by a deputy who was unaware of the exercise, and (thinking he was part of it) had tried to bribe him with fake money. The deputy unloaded his mace on them, then shot as they were fleeing. Now the military sends out notices to all area departments before the exercise.
I am not a conspiracy theorist nor do I think the government runs operations like this as preparation for installing a dicatorship.
However, from a practical standpoint this type of training does not make much sense. The soldiers are not learning how to search a home in a foreign land populated by people who don’t speak the language. If they want to learn that skill they should ask a local detective to give them a class.
Same question I’ve had in my old ARNG days.
Who’s going to pay the bill for the “realisting training” we really need? And since usually the answer was almost always nobody, then what to do with the meager resources that we do have?
Is it realistic, well, it shows great initiative by local commanders.
Is it appropriate, not so sure, and our greater Army training system should probably be embarrassed that local commanders resort to using their home-town for realism in this type of training.
I was fortunate that most of my ARNG time was in Artillery units, and we always had realistic “down-range” schedules. But had we been tasks to do this type of urban training, we wouldn’t have had anywhere to go either.
I can’t speak of the US, but in Canada the Canadian Forces have done similar type training on multiple occasions. About a decade ago they took over the county I lived in for preparation to deploy to the Balkans. In that case not only were there uniformed CF personnel interacting with the populace, but there were also non-uniformed CF playing the roles of the various militant factions which they would be dealing with in theater. there were some complaints, mostly from people who were frightened by armed soldiers despite it having been widely announced long before the exercise that they were coming. The only excuses were either willful ignorance or just wanting to complain about the military.
So long as the public knows what is going on and any active participation is voluntary there should be no problem.
How long before your voluntary participation becomes the equivalent of allowing a police officer to search your car after a traffic stop? You have the right to say no, and he has the right to detain you and harass you and possibly even break a tail light to have something to write you up for… Rights that you do not defend vigorously do not exist.
This is a bad precedent. Besides, the number of wood frame houses occupied by Americans in Iraq is zero. Which approximates the value of this “training.”
As a member of the USAR and someone who’s also been part of both the NE and IA Guard whoever dreamed this up is showing great initative and poor judgement.
The interior of the houses will not be the same, the reactions of the people won’t be the same, etc etc…
Forget about the whole non-issue of confiscating guns, etc etc…
The reason why this kind of thing was dreamed up in the first place is because National Guard and Reserve units are not getting the proper training and proper funding to prep them for deploying and the leadership is trying to be “creative” and do something (anything?!?) that could be “good training” and still “low-budget”.
You’d be better off finding some construction engineers in your area units and putting them to work building some “sets” at Camp Dodge (IA) using scrap or surplus materials to replicate (on a small scale) some of the types of buildings or interiors they will encounter.
Then have them practice on that, with the help of pre-screened “volunteers” from the local community.
As someone else said, “[The] Army training system should probably be embarrassed that local commanders resort to using their home-town for realism in this type of training.”
Bottom line: The Guard and Reserve simply can not sustain skills on par with Active forces and the whole “Operationalization” of the Reserve and Guard simply is not practical or workable.
Not without a bunch more money and training time/days made available.
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