First Strike Simulation

I remember as a kid the big debates going on at the beginning of the Reagan build-up. I went to school in a VERY leftist school system. As kids, we were bombarded by how Reagan's build-up was going to force the Soviets to nuke us (as well as other nonsense).

Now I wonder if an updated "doomsday" scenario will involve not a massive missile attack, but container ships rigged with tactical nukes, or a single missile delivering a warhead into the upper atmosphere to deliver a massive EMP burst.

That was a fun way to start my morning!! I went to college right next to Plattsburgh AFB. Many days we would watch all the FB-111s and KC-135 get flushed from the base and I would wonder if this was really it.

Definitely a scary way to grow up. Perhaps it is that uprbringing that makes me wonder if our current threat is more or less frightening.

Doug...

Plattsburgh, what a shame. The hippies took it over in 1996 for an enormous Phish concert.

Too bad too, interesting base. Only place east of the mighty Mississippi with ICBMs, old Atlas rockets. Home to B-52s, F-111s, and tankers.

SAC bases were awesome. Whatta shame they went the way of the dinosaur.

Gotta love the Air Force haircuts... (gotta lighten up the mood somehow!)

Was the "get the word out" system really as slow as it appeared to be depicted? People running back and forth with telexes?

Two things that weren't brought up, due to lack of information on the part of the filmmakers:

1. I wonder if we would have lost any at-sea SSBNs - everyone seems to think those things submerge and disappear for 3 months at a time.

2. I assume (perhaps too much) that the skippers of the US SSNs following the Soviet SSBNs had standing orders to sink them if they started flushing missiles, which I suspect would have cut down significantly on the inbound missile count.

When it comes down to it, I'm glad I wasn't part of the nuclear weapons world... Intel was weird enough.

Thoughts? Has anything about actual SSBN operations and counter-operations been declassified or is it still all speculation on the part of techno-thriller authors?

Yes, sure brought back memories. I started first grade in '51. I remember well the nuke drills in school. Where I grew up in the North Hills of Pgh, PA, from my house on a hill, I could see the Nike site radar dome spinning around on the next hill to the east. Just across the valley from the radar, about a third of a mile as the crow flies, was the actual Nike missile site. Remember touring the site radar and missile facilities as a Boy Scout. Fascinating to a ten year old, to say the least. I've no doubt as to the threat. Yes, nowadays, the threat has taken different form, but, probably no less in seriousness. Are we ready to defend the "homeland"? I would hope so. With the treaty a few years ago with the Russians and the resultant reduction of forces and equipment (and thanks to "Billy Jeff"...), at least in the US, I have a tendency to wonder, seriously. I miss the MAC and SAC designations and the strength they represented. Were they REALLY no longer needed? With Putin's actions and attitudes of the last year or so, I tend to think, we may have been too hasty to "reduce and destroy". Hmmm. Interesting times, these. BTW, I served at Ft. Carson '70-'72 with a SSG in the battalion S2 who was a Nuclear Weapons Tech, the guys who tended the "mushroom seeds". Yes, those were the days, my friend...

Wow! That sure brought back some memories. I spent 4 years on missile crew at Minot AFB. Even pulled several alerts at Oscar-1. I think we would have gotten the missiles off of the ground.

yeah reaction time, even back then, had to be much...much quicker.

Maybe even quicker than it is today.

As I watched the clip of film, I don't think it would have been that pessimistic of an outcome. It would have been bad, but not that bad. "Exarmyclerk", I'm a "Grumpy Disabled Vet". I figure you have about 3 or 4 years on me. But as I read your comment, you brought many strange memories from a distant past. While I can not and will discuss certain points. One thing which was comical, while we were in Basic Training at Lackland. Everybody was required to go through a class on Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Warfare. At a certain point in the class the instructor says, "There has been a question raised in this class, 'Sir, what are we supposed to do if we are at ground zero at the time of a nuclear attack?' Answer: Airman, the only thing you are going to do is put your head between your legs and kiss your ass, good-bye." It is a real shame because people don't have a clue to the differences between now and then.

Grumpy

There was a day a friend and I went out to a McDonalds for breakfast. I was with an old friend that I've known for 50+ years. He was a Navy Vet. We were just sitting and shootin' the bull. We both ride bikes, this is our only means of transportation. This is because of the mix of our disability and State Law. He looked at me and I knew he saw or heard something I missed. He said, "Let's get out of here, RIGHT NOW!" We were a half mile from home, with one busy street to cross. We crossed it with no problem and residential back streets the rest of the way. On the way, he told, "A plane hit the World Trade Center." I said, "You mean one of the little jobbers?" Reply, "No, I mean one of the BIG mothers!" OF course, I'm talking of that terrible 9/11/2001. I wonder what some of the leaders of the past would have done in this situation? What would have been their questions? How would they have responded? I believe there would be some VERY BIG SURPRISES! Now, you have something to ponder as we go forward as a Nation.

GRUMPY

1. I wonder if we would have lost any at-sea SSBNs - everyone seems to think those things submerge and disappear for 3 months at a time.

I doubt it, but the problem prior to Trident II was inability to take out hardened silos. So the Soviets launch their B-team first and hold the reserves that we can't touch. The D5 was the game-changer; invulnerable, extremely reliable, and accurate enough to destroy hardened targets.

2. I assume (perhaps too much) that the skippers of the US SSNs following the Soviet SSBNs had standing orders to sink them if they started flushing missiles, which I suspect would have cut down significantly on the inbound missile count.



Almost certainly correct.

Amen, Grumpy! When I went through Army basic at Ft. Dix (my, I'll bet that base has changed...) it was called "Chemical, Biological & Radiological Training", or "CBR". Yep, it was a whole different world, and really, not THAT long ago. And, yes, there was the same scenario and the "kiss your ass goodbye" answer.

Growing up on the other side, we had our own drills, especially after the Reagan's challenge... 'Flash to the righ (flash to the left, behind, in the front), drop to the ground, feet facing the flash, face down, collar up, hands and AKS under your body' must do that in 5 sec wearing a gas mask...and that's in high school...and all the movies and newsreels about our response to the US nuclear attack... we of course were quicker and better all the time...

Plattsburgh AFB was one amazing place. Absolutely massive.

My National Guard unit used to train with the local SPs. We would infiltrate an area and they would try and flusn us out. Never happened, which did nothing for my confidence that these guys could safeguard all the nukes on the base.

I went back two years ago and now you can drive all over the base except for the flightline. It's sad, but I suppose in the long run a positive thing that it's not needed anymore.

exarmyclerk, for me it has almost been FORTY years ago! I live in that New York to DC corridor. There is a military base not far from where I live. This place had in many ways just slowed down. On that September day, people were coming out of the woodwork. There was an old guy in the area who was one of Albert Einstein's co-workers on the Manhattan Project. He and and his older brother lived there, the younger of the two was 100+ years old. He had an interesting attitude, "Stay out of the way and let the young guys do it, they know what they are doing. I am talking of the enlisted, of course." Many of went to his house, this is what he wanted, especially now. Many of these guys were disabled vets from Viet Nam. There was this one wannabe in the group and he's driving one the area's main roads. He passes the main gate, he sees the security is as tight as a gnat's ass stretched over a 50 gal. drum. He got to the old man's house and yells out, "You would not believe what I have just seen." It was strange, this man has said more words in a minute, than 20 of us in 3 hours. It was all body language. The vet that I've known for 50+ years, said 4 words, "If he only knew." He did something really neat, he started with the old man and his brother, then each one of these disabled vets one by one in the eyes. Each one "stood" straight and tall and nodded back to him in agreement. None of these men could actually do it, but in spirit, they could. The wannabe was the last man he looked towards, the wannabe held his head down. The vet walked over to him and said, "Hold your head up, find your place and get it done. We're going to be here for a LONG TIME!" Even the wannabe started to see the hope.

This did bring back some memories. They filmed an actual "horn" response at a SAC bomber alert facility. You can tell by looking at the patch on the left shoulder of the guy scrambling into the drivers seat of the alert response vehicle (truck). That is a gunner's patch. Look close and you'll see a Bulldog with a machine gun. The gunner always drove the alert vehicle.

The buff's were all "D" models in this film. During my time in the "G", we had 22 nuclear weapons on each of the alert birds. 6 SRAMS on an internal rotary launcher, 4 B-60's on a clip in rack, and 12 ALCM's on wing pylons. Just 22 alert birds airborne would have over 480 nuclear weapons. That would have been "significant deterrence. SAC had plans for everything. We always knew we'd lose the SAC bases on the coasts from SLBMs. They were probably just kept there to soak up missiles. The interior bases would have had a minimum of 30 mins warning. We knew we could get the alert force airborne in that time. We practiced the alert responses at least once a month. The weakness in the chain was always in making the decision to launch or lose the airborne forces. The USN said they watched the Soviet bombers pretty close. When they moved in closer, as they did periodically, the alert forces would go to increasingly heightened alert status. During the 90's I don't think the SAC base, Loring AFB, in Maine ever came off of restricted alert status.
We knew that if we were ever launched for real we would only be moments away from complete and utter devastation of our homes and families. Just kiss it all good by and hope it was over quick. It made for some "interesting" dreams.

Errr, "Soviet bombers" in the above, should read "Soviet boomers".

Actually, I think this footage was shot for the documentary ("First Strike," ca. 1979) and then later used in the movie "The Day After."

The YouTube description of this 10-minute clip reads :

"The US bomber force is destroyed on the ground and the Minuteman missiles in their silos in this highly realistic dramatization filmed with the unprecedented cooperation of the US Air Force. The people shown are the actual men and women of the US Air Force and Navy who would have been targeted.

This is a short version of the scenaio used in the 1979 documentary film, FIRST STRIKE, which examined how the Soviet SS-18 missile force together with submarine launched missiles might be used to destroy our strategic forces in a surprise, preemptive attack."

I have been looking everywhere on the internet for the full (supposedly one-hour long) documentary film, but so far without any succes.
Does anyone know where it can be found ?

Thank you in advance.