The 9/11 Generation

The thought has often struck me how this generation answered the call unlike any other since WWII. Years ago I read the "Greatest Generation" by Tom Brokaw and he noted the short comings of the baby boomers with respect to the "greatest generation" and I thought to myself "what contributions has my generation made?" I know that when I and my generation joined the military the last things on our mind was going to war. Reagan was in office, the cold war was winding down, I was looking to get some college money myself. Now I did believe that I was earning it nobly and had no misgivings about the military, but I sure as hell didn't join up to "make a real difference". The 9/11 generation joined because of a clear purpose, knowing they would most likely serve in a war.

I was able to march with the American Legion during our last Memorial Day parade and I had to give up carrying the Army flag....to a Specialist who had just left the Navy to join the Army. He was home for leave before deploying with the 10th Mountain Division. I carried the POW/MIA flag that day and watched his father run up and down the sidewalk with a 10th Mountain flag for the whole parade route. When we reached the cemetary his father was invited to stand with us in the flag line. Specialist Gonzales gave one helluva speech, one of the best I've heard on Memorial Day. His father was standing right in front of me and I still can't explain why he didn't explode of pride.....

To the 9/11 generation HOOAAHH!!!

I hear folks call the baby boomer generation "the worst generation."

I don't necessarily think that's fair, it unintentionally slanders our Vietnam Vets, methinks.

Now those guys were brave. The volunteers, at least. Jumping into that fight while the nation at home spits on you for it?

At least we have our troop supporting organizations. Thank God for them.

I went to a bar not to long after my twenty first birthday earlier this year, and got involved in a conversation with a man in his early 80's. He had been coming to this bar for years, and he noted of how 'soft' the new people were that now filled it's stools. The bar was full of forty-something townies and such. He picked me out as a military type (ROTC, commissioning next year) right away and struck up a conversation. Maybe it was me being so much younger, maybe it was the shave and haircut; I'll never know. He had felt a dismay at leaving the military, retiring as a senior NCO in the Army. He feared that the country was at risk by the softness of the generation that followed him and felt as if he was abandoning his post to someone not able to guard it. He was of course generalizing, but felt strongly about it. After an hour of fascinating conversation about his time in France and later Korea, we parted ways.

I could tell he was upset by all the reflection going on, so on the way out, I asked him is he was good to go. He looked at me and asked "I don't know; should I be?"

I told him "You've helped to built the wall on which you stood for so long. Your blood, sweat, and essence courses through it's grout and stone. It's battered and bruised, especially in the last few years, but it stands. Sir, it's time for you to rest and stay warm in the blanket you've laid over the country; I've got your post. You're relieved... get some chow and rest."

I shook his hand and he started to tear up. he said "You've got the post. I've been waiting for years to hear that, and until now, I didn't know if it was true. Thank you, I know we'll be safe if there's many more like you around, no matter how uppity you young folks can talk sometimes" with a wink, and walked off.

That's why I'm still here, and that's why this Generation will be strong.

We'll never be the greatest generation, but damn it, we'll do what needs to be done.

Or die trying.

A nice article and I salute those who gave up great opportunities to make money so that they could serve.

However, let's not pat ourselves on the back. Since I'm 32, I would not regard myself as "this generation". However, with the overall numbers of the military being the lowest they have ever been and the American population being the highest it's ever been, the percentage of the population serving is the worst it's ever been.

It surely is not on the footing of the WW2 generation. EVERYONE knew someone in a uniform. If you DIDN'T serve, it was almost a mark of shame.

Hell, even during Vietnam, a greater percentage of Americans wore a uniform than they do now. Sure, a draft was on, but still, most who were called went.

The administration never made a "call to arms" and droves of young men didn't go pounding down the recruiters' doors looking to get in. Enlistment and reenlistment bonuses have skyrocketed since 9-11. The Army doesn't give money away unless it needs bodies.

So, a nice article yes... the "new greatest generation"?? Hardly.

Joel,

The military is meeting or barely under their self imposed goals, at one point we had over 500,000 troops in Viet Nam and the military has been down sizing since the end of the cold war. You're 2 for 2 now (in raining on a post). Did someone piss in your Wheaties this morning??

yeah Joel, quit being such a negative nancy!

Still, I kinda do enjoy the unapologetic realism, even if I don't agree.

"...you have to want to believe because it fits your narrative..."

And you think that, in any possible sense, you are less guilty of filtering information so that nothing gets in except the stuff you wish were true?

You guys have done this incessantly over the past few years, and, quite simply, you have no credibility left, whatsoever.

I don't necessarily buy the accuracy of the TNR piece, but I certianly dont buy the trashing of it by people like you and your buddies. Y'all have spun, decieved, and sometimes lied your way into this mess, showing stunning ignorance of the matters you opine about, and an instinctive, somewhat deranged hostility to your own fellow citizens who, unlike you, take seriously their responsibilities as free citizens in a democracy.

I understand the soldier's need to embrace their mission, and to believe in it. But the free citizen of a democracy has an equally fundamental responsibility to think critically about the policies of their nation, for in a democracy such as ours, there is no higher authority than the citizen, and passing the buck of responsibility to the elected officials is just not an option.

Y'all are miserable failures at being citizens and free men. Thats ok if you have made the decision to embrace, wholly, the identity of a soldier. But the least that one could ask is for y'all have the wisdom to recognize that the ethic and the worldview of the soldier is not appropriate for the role of citizen and free man - that they are different fundamentally.

I have spoken personally to so many people like those who write here, and I know that their feelings and beliefs are, almost always, far deeper and more complex than what finds its way into print. Based only on reading the RW/mil blogs, one does get the sense that your dreams of a perfect society bears a close resemblance to a military dictatorship - where the citizens are passive and totally supportive of the "chain of command".

I dont beleive most of you really beleive that, which is why I (and so many of your fellow citizens) see your writing as little more than dishonest, trashy spin.

wow, I stopped reading that at "you guys."

I like the irony of how "Joe Citizen" is railing against people ignoring that which they would like to believe isn't true by... disbelieve that which he'd like to believe isn't true.

It has a nice, kind of ironic symmetry to it.

Well, I think you guys have credibility, because my BS detector doesn't go off every time you open your mouthes. Oh, and thanks for putting yourselves at risk to defend us. Maybe one day if things get really bad I will join you but for now I have the privilege of living in comfort while others defend me. I don't like it, but for now, that's the way it is.

Old Tanker, the numbers are starting to take a dive... 8% short of the recruiting goal for May 2007... 15% for June. July ain't looking good.

Repeated deployments that get longer every year, with shorter breaks in between. More stop-loss and more IRR call-ups.

I don't rain on posts. And, by God, I wish I could say everything was hunky-dory. But, it ain't. And, as John said, I'm an "unapologetic realist."

Joel,

Where are those numbers from? John periodically puts up re-up stats in here and I've never seen numbers like you're talking about. In fact this is what I found. These are just reserve numbers but I've at least added a little linky. You don't rain on posts? Eeore is an eternal optimist then.

Joe

Wow,
I don't necessarily buy the accuracy of the TNR piece, but I certianly dont buy the trashing of it by people like you and your buddies. Y'all have spun, decieved, and sometimes lied your way into this mess, showing stunning ignorance of the matters you opine about, and an instinctive, somewhat deranged hostility to your own fellow citizens who, unlike you, take seriously their responsibilities as free citizens in a democracy.

We (who have served) claim BS on a story, not because we don't want to believe it but because we can smell the BS from a mile away. We may know what we're talking about, maybe. Of course you're not spinning anything, after claiming we want a military dictatorship and then calling us a sub-class of citizen.... Gee, your credibility seems quite a bit higher than ours.....

Enlist, you douchebags. I did, and I hope I'll be your drill sergeant when you do. We'll see what you're made of then!

Please, all of you, stop. The shame and embarassment I feel FOR you is only exceeded by the contempt you so richly deserve.

Does ANYONE believe the cheesy Harlequin Romance script Andrew put up? I'm laughing my socks off. Nobody talks like that, nobody.

The pro-Bush war-enthusiasts (who'd shit their pants if they had to enlist) are a pathetic bunch.

I didn't know the Army let corporals be DIs Oregon Guy.

Anyway you probably don't want to use the chickenhawk line around here (I mean, you probably don't want to use it anywhere, it's kind of embarrassing).

The four dudes that you're referring to are a cadet on a commissioning track, a combat armor veteran, an enlisted reservist with tours in Iraq and Gitmo, and an active duty Airman.

And then the sojer smiled at me and I smiled at the sojer and then we all knew we were brave men and true and proud to live in the democracy country that Ronald Reagan gave us (even though he was not really much of a sojer either)

Hi John!

Actually they do (in the Corps, which I'm not in)... but in the Army they don't have DI's... so you're obviously a civilian who's been reading my post over at TBogg's place.

So... I'm "promotable" if you catch my drift. I'm not a DS (that's what we call them in the Army) and I would probably try to get out of DS duty if it were offered to me - but I would still love a day as the DS of any of the bedwetters I've seen on this thread. But enough about me.

Why is "the chickenhawk line" embarrassing? To whom?

The fact is - if you support our war in Iraq, sign up. Please. Don't tell me we don't need the people. I know for a fact that we do - BADLY.

As for your proto-butter-bar, see my post at TBogg's place. The airman: unless he's a PJ, EOD or a FAC he isn't in the military as far as I'm concerned. The reservist: "Reserve" means pogue, and Iraq and Gitmo mean "non-combat tours." I'll give you guys the tanker. That's 1 for 4.

Again - what's wrong with fighting in wars you support? I DON'T support it, and neither do my friends (all of whom wear patches on their right arms and CIBs on their chests) - and everyone has been at least 12 months and is now going for 15-18 months because we need bodies in the line and we're TIRED of doing this crap and not seeing our families and having our marriages break up and reading about our buddies getting killed in the Army Times.

Once more: why is "the chickenhawk line" embarassing?

TO WHOM?

Just so everyone here understands what I mean when I call reservists "pogues:"

The Army Reserve makes up only 20 percent of the Army's organized units, but it provides about half of the Army's combat support and a quarter of the Army's mobilization base expansion capability. At 5.3 percent of the Army's budget, the Army Reserve provides a cost-effective solution to the Army's need for specialized capabilities.

The Army Reserve contributes to the Army's Total Force by providing 100% of the:

Chemical Brigades
Internment Brigades
Judge Advocate General Unit
Medical Groups
Railway Units
Training & Exercise Divisions
Water Supply Battalions

...more than two-thirds of the Army's:

Civil Affairs Units
Psychological Operations Units
Transportation Groups
Motor Battalions
Chemical Battalions
Hospitals
Medical Brigades
Theater Signal Commands

...and nearly half of the Army's:

Petroleum Battalions
Adjutant General Units
Petroleum Groups
Transportation Command
Terminal Battalions
Public Affairs Units

http://www.armyreserve.army.mil/ARWEB/MISSION/Role.htm

No disrepect to the Reserves, they provide important CS and CSS for the Army. But let's not pretend that they are something they aren't.

Gee, Oregon Guy... for a tough-talking soldier with a combat patch and a CIB... you sure are a whiny, little bitch.

If you're tired of the tours, then get the fuck out. You sound like you're in the beginning of your career... probably a little, piss-ant E-3. That means you joined AFTER Iraq was invaded. I have no sympathy for you.

Iraq is fucked up. I've been. I deal with it. I'll no doubt go again.

Suck it up, bro. Save the hatin' for the hajis.

Its not about me. I joined post 9/11 but pre-Iraq. Imagine that.

Why is "the chickenhawk line" embarassing. I don't get it.

Forget TNR; I want to hear more about Andrew's adventure with old men in bars. It ranks up there with Matt Burden's encounter with a fictitious French flag officer.

I mean Holy Jeez, I'll bet whatever second-rate ROTC program Andrew is part of--his fellow cadets would roll their eyes at this story.

Oregon Guy,

Thanks for the props but let's not go stinking up peoples creds, by the way, John is an Air Force officer, not some civilian. As for slighting the "pogues" as you call them (they were REMFS in my day but we are 20 years removed.......) Ease up would ya? I know damn well where you are coming from. Having been combat arms we used to bitch about the REMFS all the time but let me give you some OLD tanker prospective... Since I've been out I joined the American Legion (see the first comment) My logic was lobbying dollars for veterans affairs, etc, etc... nothing noble here, just simply the right thing to do. What I realized after joining the Legion is that almost everybody that is the most active were former Rear Echelon... In fact, I'm actually looked at a little differently because I saw combat (that's not a good thing because we have so very few combat vets in our organization). They're still out here supporting 20, 30, and 40 years down the road, don't malign them, you'll become an "Old Oregon Guy" and regret it. Where ever someone serves, it's not wise to piss on 'em and tell them its raining...... they're bringin' you Class 1, Class 2, Class 3,....and if you're real lucky, some Class 6!

Oregon Guy,

BTW, TBoggs place?? throw out a link, I'd like to take a peak. You're not talking about TF Boggs at Vox Veterana are you??

Wow, Oregon Guy... you be my Drill Sergeant? Hardly there, stud. I attended Infantry OSUT at FT Benning when you were in elementary school. I was on my first deployment before you learned how to drive.

Define "pogue" nowadays, bubba... there ain't no such thing anymore. You got transpo weenies out there seeing more action than an Infantryman. You got a female MP who got a Silver Star. In my mind, there ain't really any difference anymore between combat arms and the other branches. You still are stuck in that "big Army" think. You probably also believe you can kill all the Arabs and win the war. Wrong again.

The majority of combat power lays in the Guard. Always has. The OIF II rotation was carried by the Guard. This upcoming rotation likely will be too. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that almost as many CIB's have been awarded to Guardsmen as they have been to regular Army soldiers.

Citizen-soldiers have also bourne the burden of casualties. Hundreds of Reservists and Guardsmen have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. Don't spit on their sacrifice with your juvenile, "look at my CIB" bullshit diatribe.

Teamwork, private... that's what it's all about. Or are they not teaching that anymore in the watered-down basic training they run your pansy asses through nowadays?

Grab a warm cup and mind your lane.

Joel,

you by chance a Guardsman?? Anyways, well said and I couldn't agree more.......

Tbogg's a blogger...

Gotta be honest, Old Tanker - it would take a lot of Class 6 to get me into an American Legion joint. That's just a sign of the times, I think.

And nota bene that the key word there was "Reserve," not "Guard..." Yes, the Guard has many many combat arms units. And yes, there are lots of truck drivers and fuelers who get shot at just like anyone else and bang hurts the same no matter what patch you're wearing.

My bitch is more along the lines of the chow-hall heroes and mostly the goddamn dayhos who want to sell you a bunch of hooah BS. Andrew's post is what brought me here - it really pissed me off.

This war isn't fun. It isn't heroic. And it isn't noble. And I'm still pretty raw as I just lost a buddy last month.

So, having noted that not everyone here is a freaking pogue. And having noted that we need every hand we can get in the fight (ain't that the freakin' truth)...

ANDREW. Keep your mouth shut around real soldiers, please! Don't say a goddam word until you get to O-3 and even then run whatever you think you should say past your 1SG! You'll be happy you did.

ALL OTHERS. I'll mind my own lane now.

Oregon Guy, sorry for your loss. Hang in there, keep your head down, and get back in one piece.

For future reference, I think the people you hold in contempt are "FOBbits".

Don't worry... I can't stand them myself.

Oregon Guy, sorry to hear about your buddy, I'm sure it can jade you pretty good.

I understand where you are coming from with regards to the rear echelon Rambos, but it's not ALL REMFS doing it, just don't paint 'em all with the same brush. That being said, eyes open, head down, and get home safe!

FOBits, heh, I like that one!!

Yep, that's the new term. Or at least the one for this war.

FOB is "Forward Operating Base" as in FOB Loyalty or FOB Rustamiyah or FOB Apache.

"Lord of the Rings" being the hit movie that it was helped spawn the name. "Hobbit" became "FOBbit".

There's actually a rap song done by a few Joes that was pretty hilarious called "Fobbit". You can catch it on YouTube or something like that.

Whereas, in the old days, MOS may have delineated the types of soldiers in theatre, my experience showed me there are merely two types... those that go outside the wire on a regular basis and those that don't.

Joel,

In my war, we didn't have FOB's. We just put our tanks in a big circle jerk and called it an alpha-alpha. Hell, we were "outside the wire" as you say for 6 months of my 9 1/2 months there. We never saw REMFs, they didn't go where we were, we had to go get our own food!

Oregon Guy,

I just checked TBogg, it's a pretty depressing place IMHO......

Old Tanker, here's a link to support my earlier claim about May and June being short months for the Army's recruiting numbers.

http://www.militaryconnection.com/news/july-2007/recruiting-show-promise.html

I read it and there are several points I'll argue with it. First, as for the Army's retention numbers, I'd be interested to see a breakdown between FIRST-TERM reenlistments versus all others. My guess is that these reenlistments are high, due to the fact that anyone who leaves with IRR time hanging over them are VERY likely to be recalled. Ergo, the soldiers merely reenlist for another couple of years to burn off any IRR time from hanging over them (and, of course, the bonus money doesn't hurt either). Further evidence I believe to buttress that are the high numbers of young (age-wise) NCO's and staff NCO's. If they are being promoted so quickly and in such great numbers, where are the "mid-career" guys? Could it be they're leaving in droves?

The officer corps is already rampant with poor retention rates at the O-3 level.

The other point is where a spokesman is quoted as "being concerned." To me, the Army ALWAYS understates things. I mean, look at the war so far in which the Pentagon has SLOWLY admitted mistakes (well, I guess in hindsight, more troops would have been a good idea). So, for them to say, "hey, we're concerned" to me says, "we're shitting our pants but we're not ready to admit that just yet."

The reason for the shortfall and, what I predict will be a continuing decline was something I heard from a guy who works at USAREC. Essentially, the Army has been short for the past year or so. What they started doing was "reaching ahead" (so to speak) and plucking delayed entry numbers and counting them the day they joined rather than when they shipped. Now that they are shipping, the numbers are starting to catch up with them.

I've also begun to hear ruminations that DA is getting ready to drop all the bureaucratic red-tape for Guardsmen and Reservists wanting to cross over to the Regular Army. Basically, you'll be able to say, "I want a transfer" and it'll be a go (vice all the crap and forms that have to be filled out and approved). This is good for me, as I'm trying to cross to the RA right now anyway.

wow, I stopped reading that at "you guys"...i think that says it all. Please, don't ever read a dissenting opinion because then the kool-aid might wear off. If you think the war is such a grand idea got fight it you twit.

Anonymous

If I start off by calling you a dumb-ass would you call that a dissenting opinion and continue to read what I had say and mull it over seriously??? Don't think so.

A word of advice, don't start off a comment by calling most of the readership simpleton sub-citizens and then expect thoughtful responses, you just might get called....well...a dumb-ass

Don't even sweat the trolls, Old Tanker. They're like a truck in the middle of a tank battle. Yeah, they're fun to shoot up with the co-ax... but definitely not worth a main round.

Oh, please bring back the Willie P!!!!!

lol, still Joel....there is NOTHING more satisfying than having some nimwit use the chickenhawk line on me.

Even if OT is already ahead in the ass-whupping game.

I just get a kick out of people showing up called "Anonymous" with e-mail addresses like "hotmail@hotmail" and then saying you should sign up to fight this war.......on a fucking milblog for crissakes!!!! (who's the twit?) Where nearly everyone is currently in the military, has been in the military or is in Iraq already!!!!

Joel,

if I can't have willie for the trucks (or trolls) the Ma Deuce was much more fun than the co-ax!! And just to make sure the trucks didn't re-appear after we left, a white phos grenade on top of the engine block was loads of fun too!! (Hell, they probably banned those right after banning the willie P too)