Scheuer Shanks The Prez

I thought it was a cheap and ineffective argument. Show me where Obama supposedly stated that his personal beliefs ought to outweigh national security concerns - it doesn't exist. Rather, what he's on the record as saying is that the US government screwed up by using methods that have clearly been identified as torture. That's a legal judgment, not a moral one.

As for Scheuer's "jack bower" defense - what if bin Laden had a nuke - that's a ridiculous hypothetical if he intends to use that to justify torturing Gitmo detainees for useless information.

Actually, those methods have not been clearly identified as torture. So this is a wrong assertion.

I can see where Jason is coming from, really can.

But I do tend to think some of the advanced techniques fall short of the definition of "torture." Torture inflicts permanent mental and psychological damage, none of what I've seen from the memos fits that definition.

Though I will concede the line has become awful blurry...

It may be a practical point of view-but the word moral does not belong any where near that type of sentiment. We can't have it both ways-stay on the moral high ground and then use tactics that tear down the basis for that claim.

James Fallows explains why.

How about Jose Padilla, remember him? He was so broken by torture that the AUSA's trying him argued that he was unable to assist in his own defense due to the torture in order to prevent the disclosure at trial of what had been done to him to get his confession.

The jack Bauer defense might make for entertainment on a Fox network, but it has damaged the nation badly.

Once again, people are using the word torture. By law, this is not torture. Waterboarding prevented another successful attack in Los Angeles. You cannot use that word. If the United States decides in the future that it is torture, then so be it. But you just cannot throw that word out that somehow that has been legally defined. The only thing that is badly damaging the country in terms of national security is the left in this country.

Once again, people are using the word torture. By law, this is not torture. Waterboarding prevented a successful attack in Los Angeles. You cannot use that word. If the United States decides in the future that it is torture by the passing of law, then so be it. But you just cannot throw that word out that somehow that has been legally defined. The only thing that is badly damaging the country in terms of national security is the left in this country.

I don't know if it qualifies as torture, but I am under the opinion that torture should not be used.

Rather I think that spies and sabateurs should be put in line at the gallows. Once they see a few of their friends do the jiggly dance, maybe they will decide to talk to save their own neck.