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Military Rifles
By Lt Col P
Firearms are much on my mind these days; here is the first of at least two posts on the subject for this weekend. "The great object," as one of the Founding Fathers wrote, "is that every man be armed."
In the recent, unseemly, but sadly necessary scramble for eeeevil black rifles, many good folks who failed to get theirs while the getting was good are now finding themselves out in the cold. When they got there the cupboard was bare, etc, etc. I see and hear much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
People, please calm yourselves. All is not lost. Here is a list of proven, powerful, surplus military rifles that are readily available at bargain prices (and same-same with their ammo). By bargain prices I mean around four hundred bucks, and some of these will go for much less. The great advantage of these rifles is that they lack the outward features which seem to excite the attention and avarice of the regulatory crowd; and with the right ammo these will do well on the hunt, too. The key to these is to get a shooter in good condition, not a collector's dream.
GO FORTH AND ARM YOURSELVES, CITIZENS. (Legally and appropriately, of course.)
The Mosin-Nagant, either the Russian or Finnish versions. Both are reliable and powerful, but the latter generally has a better Finnish-- ha ha ha Don't like the joke? Whaddya gonna do, Suomi? HA HA HA. OK, I know you people are Lapp-ing this up, but I'm out of Finnish jokes now. Allright, allright! mind your Mannerheims... And it'll be more expensive. Simo Hayha whacked most of his 500 Russian kills with a stock, iron-sighted Mosin. I think we can make-do.
The Short-Magazine Lee Enfield, the famed British .303. I can't ever remember it's the Number 4 Mk 1 or the other way around or something else entirely, so just search for "SMLE." (BLEG: Wilbur in Oz, can you tell us which is which??)
The K98 Mauser, an original German or a post-war Yugo. I'd love to have an original-- this site has basic grades competitively priced, as well as Yugo models.
The Yugo SKS. Why the hell not? Plus you can poke some fucker with the bayonet.
The Swiss K31. My friend and close associate MDL (1stSgt, USMC, ret.) has not one but TWO, and reports that this rifle shoots like a dream and is superbly manufactured. Some come with a little card under the butt plate bearing the name of Herr or Monsieur or Signor so-and-so, the sturdy Swiss citizen-soldier to whom it was originally issued. Nifty touch that, and somehow delightfully Swiss. Same-same with Swiss-made surplus ammo, packaged not in units of ten but in multiples of six, which is the rifle's magazine capacity.
Certain models of the M1 Carbine. Most WW2 and Korean War carbines are, sadly, beyond our four hundred dollar mark, but others, like the post-war Plainfield, will still just qualify. In either case, practice ammo is cheap and plentiful, effective man-stopping ammo is available, as are lower capacity magazines for low-profile work.
THESE SITES WILL HAVE SOME OR ALL OF THE ABOVE FOR SALE AS WELL AS AMMO AND MAGAZINES:
Gunbroker.com
J&G Sales
AIMSurplus
Mitchell's Mausers
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Comments
I wouldn't have much confidence in the .30 carbine round as a man stopper. The ballistics on that round were consistantly found to be to light to have the ability to knock a man down with a single hit.
Now the Ruger Model 44 Carbine, with a four round magazine and a price on the used market of just under your $400 limit would probably fill the bill, and be both a man and a show stopper.
"I wouldn't have much confidence in the .30 carbine round as a man stopper. The ballistics on that round were consistantly found to be to light to have the ability to knock a man down with a single hit."
When compared at their respective effective ranges, the .30 carbine round is ballistically similar to a .357 magnum round. The advantage of .30 carbine being, of course, that instead of six shots you've got between 15 and 30. .30 Carbine is no .30-06, but .30-06 was somewhat overpowered for the simple function of putting a man down at the ranges most of us would be shooting at (within 100 yards).
A word of caution on buying non-USGI carbines...the Plainfields are okay, because they were built to USGI spec. (The CMP actually somehow acquired some from the Army a few years back...probably bought by a foreign military post-war, mixed in with the USGI manufactured ones, and then all shipped back together.) However, other post-war repros, such as the Universals, may not have been built to USGI spec and may not even use the same type of parts as USGI manufactured ones. This means that a) they probably will not be as durable and b) parts will be more difficult to find if something breaks.
How could you forget the massive pig sticker permanently attached to the end of the M44 carbine version of the Nagant?
Worth noting that if you are seriously interested in buying a few (or more) of these type of weapons, an investment in a C&R license might be a good idea. $30 to the BATFE and you can have any firearm classified as a Curio or Relic shipped directly to your door. For our purposes, this means any military rifle over 50 years old, as well as a few other oddities.
Finally, one to add to your list of dealers...Classic Arms. Haven't had a chance to order anything from them yet (mainly because I'm waiting on my C&R license) but I've heard good things.
...2 cents...
The research I've been doing for a paper I just turned in strongly indicates that the 2nd Amendment right applies to "current Military equipment." While I suppose these older arms do have some "Militia purpose," right now your 2nd Amendment right is to have a black rifle, AKM, FN-FAL, G3, etc., so go out and get one of those, ans C&Rs are just that...fun, but relics of old standards.
...2 cents...
Great post, thanks. I have extensive experience with Mosin-Nagant, both Finnish and Russian. Love them one and all. The Finnish M39, shoots like a dream, is tightly chanbered, and heavy as a post. The sights are great and it hangs beautifully when shooting off-hand. I've carried the much lighter Russiam M38 for many miles and liked it very much. Practical accuracy is great, and the iron sights are not the worst I've used (try stock Mauser for lousy sights).
My go to rifle, the one that sits next to the Bug-Out gear is an SKS, restocked with and ATI sporter stock (Simple and inespensive). I keep the original 10 shot mag in place since I won't lose it if on the run.
Rupert is right.... the SMLE 1/2/3 lead to the No4, which I think is also called a mk4 by some (but wrongly, as there was a no4 mk2 later).
Oddly enough, Australia stuck with the SMLE right up till the end of Aussie production in the mid fifties. The fact that Aussie diggers had the older 'quality' rifle instead of the supposedly mass produced No4, was often noted by Brit troops in North Africa. Along with their higher pay and usual Aussie behaviour with or near alcohol.
Australia also had a heavy barreled sniper version with I think less than 2,000 made, they are very collectable now. I think it was still our main sniper rifle as late as the 70s.
A nicely prepared SMLE on a plaque is still a common sight in Reserve and Regular army messes here, wedged somewhere between a few trophies and some framed pics of the 'ancestors'
It was a very nice idea! Just wanna say thank you for the information you have shared. Just continue writing this kind of post. I will be your loyal reader. Thanks again.
Thank you very much!
Great post! Hope to be better. Better means more features.
good post,I think so!
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The SMLE came in Mark 1,2,3, then the No4 came in around 1940. Speaking as a former Army Cadet (youth organisation in the UK, 13-18), we mainly used the No4, which were going real well 40+ years after manufacture. A rebarrelled version in 7.62 NATO was the standard British sniper rifle until the 1990's