Breakout...kind of

Exact same problem with the AFA after the sexual assault fiasco. Our freshman training system went from rigorous to nothing in 6 seconds flat. It is not PC to blame the females, but if they weren't there, we wouldn't have had a problem. The system has sort of built back up in the years, but it is still a shadow of its former self. and we had old pilots say the exact same thing about about Hanoi. It really is good training, but officers are more concerned with unblemished safety records than proper instruction. Shame.

well i guess that i will be the asshole here: i concur with falcon's opinion, women are the problem. and it is not the women's fault, but the school officials'. it is a fact that women are the root of politically correct agendas in institutions like military schools, again not the women's fault, but that's the reason for obsessive safety requirements and gender equity this and that. there should be two different schools, one for males, the other for females. sorry but that's just my opinion.

okay I'll be the first to admit that VMI goofed it when they argued in front of the Supreme Court: instead of focusing on the benefits of single-sex education (and legality, I might add), they allowed the debate to be hijacked into a "whether or not women can do it" sort of thing.

But doesn't this also apply to females? If they're going to be in a war zone, don't they need to learn how to shed the society's protective aegis and fend for themselves? Drilling them with this nancy risk-aversion doesn't help anyone in war, irrespective of sex.

WTF? It's J-A-N-U-A-R-Y. If anything, this should be the just the first of many purges. Ugly, brutal purges. One right after the other.

Yeah wasn't January the tradition "fake-out" time? When the 1st Class pretended like they'd break the rats out early, only to subject them to two more hideous months of hell?

Ahhh good times.

What my BR said...WTF? January????

Now if they came up here to the frozen white hell of Michigan (it was 4F at 0400 today), then MAYBE I could go with it.

My ring says 3-3-86 on it, which I know is early by some standards, but it sure as hell was not January.

We are training warriors, who are going to be leading a long fight for a long time against a difficult and tireless enemy. They will be in harsh environments and conditions. They need to know pain and understand the Suck. They don't need mollycoddlying. They don't need babysitting.

They need a harsh experience.

agreed complely Bullnav. But the prevailing sentiment in the administration seems to be in favor of a more corporate approach to the four-year journey. The more cadets you lose through attrition, the less tuition money pours into VMI coffers. Better to be safe, water-down the ratline, and have a risk-free environment instead of a challenging and daring four years of survival.

It's a crying ass shame.

I was just part of that weak Breakout we had this Saturday. I'm thankful for my experience in the Rat Line, but there was never a time in it that made me want to leave. When I came here I was expecting the Spartan atmosphere that I'd heard so much about. But somewhere this school must have lost that atmosphere. I don't know exactly what the Rat Line used to be like, but I know the way some Cadets act now, they would've never made it back then. The Rat Line has become so easy that it lets people that don't care about anything other than themselves go through the whole thing and not change. It allows crappy Rats to become crappy Cadets. I've seen numerous instances this year where Rats were disrepecting Cadre and upperclassmen and continuing to do that because no true punishment was dealt. There were only 7 sweat parties all year and four forced marches/rifle runs. There were even limits to how many push ups we could do. I agree with John that it's the admins fault because they do lose money when people leave. Making the Rat Line easy so people don't leave is a sure way to keep money. People aren't going to leave so they can get that ring and the alumni status after graduation, even if they arguably don't deserve it. I think VMI has come to a point where there's no turning back. This place is going to turn into the Citadel or Virginia Tech soon. I truly wish our Rat Line was harder. But there's nothing that can be done about that now.

Breakout in Old Barracks stairwells in winter of 77 with class of '80. Submarine shellback on USS NYC '83 or so. Breakout was far far worse.

Every class is different. So when do these young men and women hit the crucible? 3rd Class academics? Asadabad?

I recall LtCol P but not Bullnav being part of the many purges/sweat parties/nothing better to do on a Saturday night my class endured en route to breakout.

My two cents...

Bullnav was an ME guy. Only us liberal arts majors with nothing to do on Saturday nights were ripe for the picking, the injineers were hiding away in Nichols studying.

And yeah, Mike... breakout was the moment when I felt like every part of me was being pushed to the limit.

That's a good thing, I think. To push yourself beyond what you thought possible.

So why is the administration stripping that away? No one is going to quit on breakout weekend!

DaveO - fire me off a note...

John - what you said.

I never went though one of these types of initiations during my time in the Navy. Bootcamp (coed, Orlando '90) was more like summer camp with bad hours, and I was frankly disappointed. No midnight ride across the causeway. No yellow footprints and howling Gunnys.

But a few years ago, I was going through a tough time and decided I needed some type of crucible experience. I got into triathlon, and decided to try for an Ironman race. What followed was 11 long months of singleminded grinding towards what seemed to be an impossible goal.

Thousands of miles alone on the bike, with only the relentless ocean wind as my training partner. Countless hours in the pool or the lake, in the water while the moon was still up and out after the sun had risen, then a run through the cold and rain for miles and miles. Up and down hills in the blazing Carolina heat and humidity. And always the wind. Fighting me, pushing against me on the bike or on a run, but making me stronger at the same time.

And finally, in the dark and cooling Northern California night, just after mile 25 of the marathon, 14 hours into the greatest day of my life, a course worker pedaled up behind me on a bike. As he drew alongside, he asked: "How ya doing, Ironman?" I don't remember my feet touching the ground for the last mile. I had done it. I had perservered, and passed the highest test I could think to set for myself. And it was sweeter exactly because it had been so arduous. Not just on the day, but in what it took to get there. If they had told me to stop at the halfway point, but still given me my finisher's medal and called me 'ironman', I would have felt cheated.

To paraphrase a great military thinker, whose name unfortunately escapes me: "Sweat in training saves blood in battle"

Man, how sad. I actually marched the entire route as a first classmen my some of my BRs. I'm so glad I attended VMI before the tide of political correctness crap washed the mud away and introduced this system. Were all the mommies and daddies there with cupcakes after breakout?
It's really sad for the guys and gals there who will never have the experience that truly gave you one of the greatest bonding experiences with your classmates. It really changed people for the better. But hey, I guess now they are 'professional'. I love how they use this word like toilet paper. Let's just be like Virginia Tech. Hey, at least we'll get a good football team, 'cause God know that is what college is all about!

We had a meeting in JM Hall today about the plans to renovate barracks and open 3rd barracks. It was opened by a Commandant staff member something like this:

"VMI is on the path to becoming a more professional institution. Some of you won't like the changes, but they're coming, and here to stay."

My dyke's class was the last class to climb the hill. My class was the last class to do the 20 mile forced march. Maybe my rats will be the last to strain.

The "Class of 2011" was booed on Saturday as they marched through Jackson Arch before their old yells, as the majority of the corps felt they weren't ready, and didn't approve of their breakout.

Seg nailed it. "Professional" is a catch-all word used to justify whatever's the latest hot topic change that some admin weenie wants to push through.

It doesn't mean shit, it's just a way of explaining yourself without really having to explain yourself.

Hear it all the time in the Air Force.

W - You really shouldn't boo the rat mass, but the administration who created this situation. The rats parents sent their kids for this type of experience? What a ripoff.

I dunno Seg. Maybe booing was too much. But if the rats had a leader among them, they would have kept straining until their dykes felt them ready to breakout.

Ah yes, very true. Ha!

One last posting, then I'll shove off. I can see it now...VMI 2020, VMI 'freakout' ( breakout is a word banned by the thought police in 2012 ).

Here will be the VMI 'freakout' schedule

0820 - PsychofunkAnalyzeurrection

The frats (rats are too much of a demeaning word by this time) are wokenup by Doctor Phil
in his wheelchair. They will be psycho analyzed by the doctor in new barracks on how wrong the frats are for being in a military college and all the associated problems with this.

1200 - Barbaric Sandwich Party - The corps rings the doorbells of the frats to make them eat sandwiches and chicken wings loaded with that crazy and scary old time stuff like
spices, transfat, and white bread. In addition, that old 'regular' coffee with ridlin will be served.

1300 - The Smoker Room - The frats will have to run in an out of antobacco smoke filled room while being talked to by the TDC (Tobacco Disciplinary Commitee). VMI will need special permission from the state for this to prevent media outlets from reporting this torture from being reported.

1400 - Carbon Footprint Hash - Unbeknownst to the state, frats will be allowed to pull the corks out of their asses and remove their mouth carbon filter muzzles. Then they will have to race in 30 year old trucks from the chateau d'barracks to Washington & Lee Skeet Club without being shot by a laser from the
USGMM (United States Green Monitoring Ministry).If the frats do not generate a large enough carbon footprint, they will
be flogged with wet seaweed and forced to go through the frat-line again.

1900 - Freakout completion - The Senior class will make the frats do a
grouphug and scream VMI thhuuuuuuuuuper! Excelsior! '20 '20 '20

Members of the Old Corps,

Gentlemen, there are members of the Corps, especially members of my class, who are trying to bring challenge and hardship back to VMI. Unfortunately it's an uphill battle with the man currently living in the Superintendent's quarters.

W- God, I hope our Rats aren't the last to strain. What a sad day that would be.

Andrew,
A word of advice with the experiences I've had with VMI and the real world. You will be crushed, suspended, and possibly expelled for actually imagining that your constructive criticism will have actually any impact whatsoever. Keep your head down and graduate. While the ratline there is an incorrigble abomination, the education is fanstasic. Once you graduate, do not give a GD dime to that place until they wake up. Unless of course you are professional...
evidently tossing the word professional around gives you a carte blanche.

Well, I try to be as professional as possible. Perhaps my comment was a bit rash. Actually, that said movement has the okay by the Commandant's staff. I'm not sure as to the Superintendent. We're trying to make far more changes than just the Ratline. There are ways to make the Ratline hard and professional.

We also booed the rats when they screwed up an Old Yell on their breakout.

I was Cadre this year. I saw my company of Rats grow into acceptable, distinguishable, and honorable VMI Cadets. I was truly proud of their accomplishments.

I do agree that there are some things that we did during our Ratline that I wish were done in '11's Ratline. I do agree that there are some changes occuring here at VMI, and many of them will be unfavorable to a good chunk of the Corps and Alumni.

At the same time, I don't think you can judge a Ratline (in this case, '11's Ratline) by comparing and contrasting it to previous Ratlines many years ago. There are many things that I know occurred in the past that should NEVER happen again. I know as Cadre this year that I was extremely tough and demanding on my Rats, and none of this included some of the disgusting things that occurred to me and my BR's in our Ratline. What happened in the past or to yourself does not make it "tough". One thing that is important to remember is that society is changing. It is natural and constantly reoccurring, and it has happened in the past and it is going to happen in the future. It is those who change, re-evaluate themselves, and become creative and flexible that continue to last and remain. The stubborn one is always the forgotten one in this case.

VMI has prosperred for almost 200 years. The ones who argue for a "tougher" Ratline by their perverted standards damage the "I", no help it. It is time we understand that VMI will ALWAYS be tough, demanding, and the greatest challenge further eduaction can offer as long as we follow these guidelines and not dig our heels in against the inevitable.

so what, by your standards all previous classes were unprofessional hazers? Clarify. I was never whacked, hit, or stuck when I was a rat. But it sounds like that's what you're implying.

I'm glad you did your best to challenge your rats. That'd admirable. But understand that you really don't have the perspective or experience (or, a diploma) to draw on like the alumni commenters in this thread.

"Perverted standards?" Really? Perhaps you should choose your words more carefully. I fail to see how encouraging the 1st Class to step things up a bit is "perverted." This breakout was the weakest that I've seen and/or heard of in over a decade. Perhaps ever.

Alumni have earned the right to be concerned about this slackening of standards. We have careers, we've lived outside of barracks' walls, and we've seen what a challenging ratline and uncompromising honor code has done for us, in our lives and beyond. To dismiss our concerns by simply lumping the authors of this blog and alumni commenters into the same box of buttwhackers is -quite frankly- unbecoming and inconsiderate.

You're welcome to post here Alex, but try and mind your surroundings next time your fingers hit the keyboard.

Wow, amazing. I was never struck or hit in my ratline. If I think that 7 sweat parties is utterly pathetic and "breakout" is so early(isn't breakout on the academic calendar), does that make me perverted? Let me guess, it's professional, so it's OK and alumni have no right to criticize this years ratline. Of course there would be some things I would change in my ratline and others. However, there is a certain threshold of WEAKNESS and CRAP that is so blaringly obvious the last few years at VMI. It is utterly disappointing.

Alex,

Good on ya for taking on a leadership role in the corps and caring about your rats. While change is inevitable and necessary for individuals and nations to advance and prosper, it often times is not necessarily good. You hear a lot of people today saying you should just embrace change and go with it, and anyone who resists it is counterproductive. I disagree. Change is natural as you said, however the natural tendency of things is to move towards disorder and decay. An individual does not develop strength and endurance by merely accepting and adapting to the natural changes the human body undergoes, and this country did not gain its freedom and independence by accepting and adapting to the societal changes facing the colonies in the late 1700’s. The dedicated few who stubbornly refused to accept the King of England’s increasing imposition on their lives are hardly the ones forgotten today.

VMI has indeed prospered a long time, but that is not a guarantee for the future. VMI’s success is due to her ability to not only embrace the good changes that needed to come about, such as racial integration, but also for the equally important reason that she has been able to discern and resist negative societal trends taking place, such as the increasing demand for instant gratification and comfort at any price, honor included. It is a constant struggle to evaluate and balance the two. The things myself and many others endured in the ratline that you identify as “disgusting” and “should never happen again” actually did have a very positive effect. They taught us to not get offended or have our feelings hurt at every little utterance we don’t like. They taught us that we shouldn’t expect to be coddled in life and that life will sometimes do disgusting things to us that we don’t deserve. As John said, we have the benefit of experiencing life after the “I” which you will have soon enough. We have learned that many times the threats against the things we cherish work in subtle ways that are difficult to recognize. They are not always intentional. Sometimes they are just the natural progression of events without anyone caring enough to be stubborn and steadfast in their convictions. Be thankful there are alumni out there who care enough to speak out for the concerns they have. Without others like them before, you likely would have had no ratline at all. Godspeed in your remaining cadetship. I know you will do well.

Very well said, Will. I had an alumnus tell me that you don't have a sane thought about the "I" until after your first reunion. I'm starting to see what he's getting at.

I'm a pre-strain for VMI, starting the Ratline next academic year. Although it may not be my place to ask this, what can the RATS do to stop (and perhaps reverse) the PC changes that the school is currently undergoing?
I do realize that asking for the ratline to be harder is unwise, as it may prove to be harder than myself, but I've always been a stickler for tradition and I find it shameful that the Ratline and Breakout have gotten easier. I know it is a college first and a military school second, but the Ratline and the challenging military atmosphere are some of the reasons I wanted to go to the school since I was twelve years old, after I read "The Institute". I found those challenges to be the best in the country and without those I am coming to doubt my decision to attend VMI recently.
I digress, but the question still stands. What can be done by the RATS next year and how can we fight the onslaught of post-modern political correctness and get back to the reason why the school was created in the first place?

Any takers? Should I strain until my dyke feels I'm ready to breakout?

There's not a lot that you can do. Other than maybe writing your state representative or the governor and asking them to remove the emperor.

The ratline is what you make of it RE. Yes, this year's ratline was less than intense, but there are plenty of ways to make things difficult for yourself. When i was a rat, i told my dyke i wanted a harder ratline...he gave it to me. Also, there is nothing to say that next year's ratline will be as easy. Alot of it depends on the organization and unity of your dyke's class. If you dont think the VMI of today is hard or good enough for you, then good luck finding another school that can meet your expectations.

No it's definitely not that I think it's not hard enough for me, I just like traditions.