Picture of the Day: Learn English

As funny as it is, this is really not a very good thing. One of the most detrimental things to our cause is "Joe with a camera" doing stupid shit.

All I need as an al-Qaeda or insurgent propogandist is this picture, an Arabic translation, a printer, and a ream of paper and I can make you another dozen or so enemies of the United States.

"This is what American soldiers think of you" or some other witty, catching title at the bottom of the picture.

Think about this, people...

I have to second Joel, this is funny barracks humor but doesn't belong out in public.....my 2 cents.....

lighten up! the boths of ya!

BLUF - They do eff sheep and they do mortar our bases. Why can AQ/AQI chop off heads and make threatening videos yet we cannot point out the truth of arab/islamic culture? Myabe the propaganda war should be waged by telling the truth - that arab/muslim culture and society is backward and regressive. It's THEIR fault they cannot compete in the world, not ours. I think we should encourage a cultural superiority in our soldiers. History has proven that our (the West) way of life, government and business leads to freedom and prosperity and their way has lead to repressive governments funded through oil, little freedom, little prosperity and much fundamentalism as a way to blame people for cultural ineptitude.

Chris,

I've been there as a soldier, believe me, we don't any problems with cultural superiority, Soldiers have plenty of it. Of course so do plenty of middle easterners!

John,

I didn't say it wasn't funny, just that my "goat fucker" pics are safely tucked away. Must be an age thing. At 23 when I was there, (Desert Shield/Storm) they were pretty damn funny. At 40, they lose some of their charm......

I have to agree with Joel and Old Tanker on this one, John. I do find this beyond amusing, but putting it out on the Intarwebs is just asking the DoD to impose more regulations and BS on our lives.

Joel and OT, I see your point. Very clearly actually. But I think Chris has the "winner" here.

The thing that got me reading military blogs was the uncensored, unbiased accuracy delivered by bloggers. This may not be a politically correct photo, but it does shine a little more light into the lives of our warriors in Afghanistan and what they are thinking and feeling.

Kudos to Op-For for posting.

Freedom of speech. If John Edwards and Harry Reid can screw American troops with their freedom of expression, our troops should have the opportunity to blow off steam. I use to be young and full of fire, otherwise I wouldn't have been worth my salt as a sniper and paratrooper.

You're missing my point entirely. You guys claim cultural superiority and probably hold the notion that this war will be won with firepower.

It won't.

It is won in the battle of ideas. The party line on this war is that we're in Iraq fighting and dying for the freedom of Iraqi people. If that's the case, then we must respect them fundamentally as human beings. Are there evil Arabs? Absolutely. However, we cannot have our soldiers coming along to some random Arab, making him hold this sign, smile, and snap a photo. It shows us to be arrogant and easily plays into the enemy's portrayal of us as occupiers.

Again, I have no problem with humor. It is a funny picture... and, as one who has suffered those mortar attacks (and rockets), it does strike a personal chord with me. However, it's posting stuff like this that will ding us... and ding us... and ding us.

Time is running out. We're running against the clock in Iraq.

Shit like this does not help.

oh stop with the dramatics Joel. The fate of our ideological battle in Iraq does not rest upon one stupid picture on a blogpost.

John,

You are clearly feeling a bit put out that you are getting some negative "press". Just imagine if you found out that you had trustingly, and with a warm smile, held up a sign handed to you by an innocent looking young American only to find that the sign said what it says. You would smart a whole lot more under those circumstances.

The important issue is that this man trusted the soldier enough to do this and being that it is in his country not ours, his lack of English and the use that was made of it was dispicable. On first blush it is funny, but hearts and minds are won one person at a time. Suppose having found out how ill used he was, he finds that an IED had been planted on the road outside his house. A man who clearly had trusted us might well side with those who planted the IED. We are not there to be superior or to make a source of levity out of a friendly and overly trusting Iraqi. We are there to win a war. Keep this kind of humor to the barracks and off the internet.

John, I'm not being dramatic. It illustrates my whole point what's been wrong with our efforts there since the beginning.

Sure, one picture doesn't generate a whole lot of damage. It's not a human pyramid or an Iraqi on a dog leash. However, it's illustrative of an overall attitude that our guys have. And, believe you me, I've been guilty of it at times as well. When you get mortared, rocketed, and IED'd... and never get a chance to shoot at those who are trying to kill you... after awhile they all become "fucking Hajis".

But, as I said before, all a propogandist has to do is print this on a leaflet with "this is what the American soldiers think of you" and disseminate it in a few villages... the effect will be felt.

One of the first rules of Information Operations... perception IS reality.

John,

You just dropped a nice piece of propaganda right into the enemies lap. Think about it like this; the IO battle space encompasses far more than just your local AO, and is an area that the US is severely restricted in operating in. So, why provide the enemy with a ready source of material that we will have a hard time to counteract?

This marine is only ensuring another few mortars landing on his FOB.

Stupidity like this gets people killed. COIN is graduate-level warfare not for amateurs, not to mention the disrespect this does to the thousands of Iraqis/Afghanis et al who have died alongside of us (including several of my Iraqi friends). Dumb troop needs a good NCO to "counsel" him. Hope his leadership sees this.

If I was running the show over there, there would be NO cameras, The only people carrying cameras would be designated military photographers! and the internet would be disabled one way or the other. I am no computer expert but I'm sure there is a way to do it. And every cell phone tower and relay station would be destroyed! Cell phones make nice detonators!
In case everyone has forgotten there is a fuckin war going on, not a trip to Disneyworld!

hey how about a nice glass of reality this is how we blow of steam why dont you all stop being such hardons about a stupid picture and realize that no one in iraqi reads this blog and if they do theyre probably happy because they actually have power and internet and a dumb picture isn't going to piss them off.

and assholes like mustagn are a dime a dozen commander types who think we can be trusted with rifles but not with an f-ing camera or the internet.

Disgrunteled Grunt, do yourself a favor and look up the word "propaganda". The Islamos are kicking our asses in that department.
By the way it is us "asshole" NCO's that keep young troops like you from doing stupid things that will get you killed.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to ban cameras... some of the best combat photography has come from random grunts with cameras.

But, this does have to be supervised... and, while shit like this could be funny in a private collection, it doesn't belong online.

And, believe you me... the BAD guys are QUITE computer-savvy... and they read all they can get their hands on.

Speaking as another older guy with deployment experience from the early 90s, I have to say I first laughed at the obvious humor of this photo. But then I knew it should never have been posted on the net. It's already been read, downloaded, and emailed by those who would propogate negative sentiment about the US.

I hate to say it, but op-for.com has potentially put more of our men and women in harm's way today.

And it's a shame the young LT got emotional when confronted with your very reasonable and experienced counterpoints. (not like that's ever happened before, eh... ;-)

No one's saying he can't post the pic. Us (mostly) wise men and experienced NCOs are just saying he shouldn't.

Steve, I did my time too. I think this a gross overreaction on both sides. A picture is not putting troops in harms way. Blackhawk helicopters put troops in harms way. And navy ships. And Strykers.

Who is this "propaganda" going to effect? This is not Abu Ghraib, people. I think that's why Strategy Page and Murdoc Online, both high trafficked blogs, felt comfortable posting.

Does this blur a line on what should/should not be posted? Sure. But to me, the line is drawn at misconduct. I would not even discipline one of my troops for this, so I can't condemn the three blogs for choosing to post.

As a lurker with CA experience, I have to agree that this pic could potentially affect us all. (not "will" but "could")

Anyone overseas who works directly with folks in Iraq, Afganistan, etc may be seen as the "bad guy" because of this knucklehead in the shot. Maybe, maybe not.

But if so, now maybe some of these natives may be swayed to do/allow something bad to happen.

And this doesn't even cover those of us who actually worked with and made friends of Iraqis (or Afghanis, etc...) when we were overseas. Leave the COIN to the experts, people.

And it's interesting to see how many people like John and Will B. have gotten defensive/sensitive in the face a little constructive critcism. I agree with the guy who said you can put up the pic. Sure you can. But maybe you shouldn't.

As a bn cdr, I didn't just draw a line at misconduct. When safety and lives were involved, I gave corrective guidance to a lot of men/women who screwed up even if their intentions were good.

I'll admit it was usually rational, low-key, well-humored feedback like the folks gave above.

And they took accountability. Didn't whine. And moved on. Good way to live.

Just another troop busy winning one heart and mind at a time...

Oh yeah, they hate us cause we're "free"

yikes

I hardly think this photo is the best example of us being "culturally superior" - which I suspect is code for white supremacy/racism.

Dear John: Although I have two strikes against me as a civilian and a Canadian, may I say how very refreshing it is to see one of our Troops with such a genuine smile on his face. Laughter is what we all need once in a while, especially during war; which brings back many painful memories.

I can only guess that the White House, the Department of Defense, the Pentagon, and the Joint Chiefs of Staff did not take exception to this photograph or it would have been destroyed. 'Though it's not worth much, you have my support to make us laugh anytime you so choose. Is this not the OPFOR site, and not that of the commenters? Just checking.

Veritas et Fidelis Semper

I'm sure the DU trolls came from Anon "Ron Paul 08" Mouse. Glad to see that they got their panties in a wad over a fake photo.

Wouldn't be the first time.

The officers I have the greatest respect for are the ones who, once in awhile, say, "I'm wrong... sorry 'bout that."

Your stock went up in my book, John.

Remind me to give you a PSYOP capes brief the next time we get together... :)

Glad to see it's gone, John. And kudos to you for acknowledging when you decided you'd made a mistake.

I wondered about it being a fake, but didn't have nearly the expertise to even raise the issue. And yeah, I'm glad it was.

I had noted there were no forms of ID/insignia on the uniform. I should have thought more about that aspect but conscentrated more on the fact that the message being sent was negative and demeaning, not of the Iraqis but of us. I too am glad you removed the picture; thank-you, John. I went and read your bio when I saw the picture. Now you are reflecting admirably from whence you come!!

If that pic was faked by Dem underground I wish I was savey enough with a computer and photo shop, I would get a pic of the head cheese at that web site and show him having sex with a 6 year old redheaded boy! and put it all over the web!
Fight fire with fire!

Amen, Mustang... except then you'd run into some lawyers that would tell you, "you can't do that."

Our own moral righteousness is one of our worst enemies.