Following us home

Why this hasn't happened yet is beyond me. It honestly makes me wonder sometimes how serious the bad guys are... except I remind myself to think like them... take time... be patient. Beware the fury of a patient man.

The really scary thing is that it would be so easy to do. They could get past the federal cops easily (either with force or by using the "pizza man" or "taxi guy" cover) and cause MUCHO havoc before they were run to ground and killed.

Very scary stuff.

What a birthday present, the arrest of those bums.
Joel, I have been thinking the same thing as you. Time is on the side of the fascist.
The amount of havoc that a couple of men with the right weapons could do in some places is staggering. Look what the two shooters in DC did a couple of years ago.
That store clerk is the hero of the day.

Bring your ammo and weapon on base and you go to jail. Do not pass go, do not collect $100.

You can bring your cased weapon and ammo for use at the range, directly to and from the range - hit the PX tomorrow.

I don't know about your local facility, but the deployment has hit both our base and post so badly, they use rent a cops for gate and most internal security.

Most are recent vets, but many are not - like the 21 Y/O young woman that looks to be all of 5 ft tall and 96 pounds.

But I suspect once past the front gate things will become much more interesting for any bad guys.

just an opinion.........

Good call, Slab. Unfortunately, most bases are still afraid of guns... in the hands of the good guys. Like most gun control regs, they tend to disarm the good guys and not deter the bad guys. I personally believe that every officer ought to carry a sidearm. Ironically, as noted above, the least armed soldier or Marine is the soldier or Marine just walking around the base. When I was mobilized very recently at Quantico, I carried during my long commute. Base order xxxx.whatever told me I couldn't carry on base, I'll leave it up to your imagination as to whether I obeyed that or not. :-)

BTW, this also highlights the absolute requirement for citizen participation and HUMINT in the fight against these freaks. All the other "-ints" we need too, as well as sharp eyed cops and good soldiers. But without HUMINT coming from the population, we're just plain P-H-U-C-T. See something, say something!

If we can't trust active duty military with weapons, who can we trust? I suspect it will take a lot more dead Americans before we get serious.

I had the same thought when I heard this: almost no one on a base, short of the rent-a-cops are armed. Now this happened at Ft. Dix.
I think about this all the time though, in a slightly different context.What about my drill site, NAVSTA Great Lakes? The Navy's boot camp? Where we have the raw Navy recruits, who know little about weapons (unless they were "raised on guns"), much less having one available. Talk about wreaking some havoc if someone tried it there.
And yes, the lack of RTC on any base burns my a$$. Not only can't I carry on base, I can't legally carry in the state of Illinois. I can carry in something like 34 states (because of Michigans reciprocity agreements), but why not all? Why not at work?
This might be the first case, but I would bet a case of beer that it won't be the last...

Indeed, there is virtually no one on an Army base with a loaded weapon.

If force protection is an issue, yet concealed carry is impractical, why not arm the CQ, SDNCO, etc? As long as the servicemember has qualified with his weapon, a simple briefing on the ROE would be sufficient.

I don't know that it "followed them home" so much as it was "waiting for them when the returned".

Thanks to the internet (and a pliant US Media), disaffected folks residing here (legally and illegally) get a ready-made source of info from which to build their anger and rage.

Because we do such a poor job of countering the enemy's info campaign, these disaffected people - otherwise completely divorced or unconnected to Al Qaida's jihad - can join in on the action almost like an independent contractor.

But I otherwise echo Slab's points and how scary/ugly such a threat, if carried out, is.

One other thing:

On base private security tends to be less than high-speed to say the least.

If this is not an isolated incident/threat, I suspect that troops will have to supplement the security force, which detracts from the other missions. Bad guys still win.

I remember being up in the REO and seeing charts on the defensive positions for Air Force bases and thinking it was a bit of a reach to worry about all the things they were planning for. Looks like someone is pretty smart to be focusing on future threats about now..

It matters not whether they're rent-a-cops or full-blown Marines. Sitting at a gate waiting to get hit is a solution for failure. One truck bomb is all it takes for an assault force to follow through on.

Once on base, it would be a free-for-all. Weapons and ammo are stored in two ENTIRELY different locations. MP's are on patrol, but with M-9 pistols... maybe a few shotguns. They'd put up a fight, but it wouldn't take long to pick them off.

Give me a dozen good men... I could cause some real pain before you killed me. And I would TRY to survive. If you get a group of men who are simply on a suicide mission... forget about it.

Not to mention the dependents who live on post. This would be devastating.

Heaven help us if this doesnt get across to people 2 important things:

1. We need individuals armed because police are just that JUST ANOTHER PERSON. The cops cant save you if someone's in your house, any more than the rent a cops or MPs can save all of us on a base.

2. Concealed carry, open carry, whatever, JUST CARRY. Contracting out your responsibility as a soldier, marine, or airman to stop a criminal on base, or contracting out your responsibility as a citizen to stop a criminal where you live is just abdicating responsibility.

A cop is no less a citizen than you. People need to get real.

And if ANYONE deserves the right to carry, it should be the military, but that a whole other bag o' worms...

I talked with an MP the other day and they told me that they are required to turn in their weapons at the end of their shift. As a cop, I had to stop myself from laughing at them.

I believe an effective solution to a problem such as this is to perhaps require officers to carry a sidearm during the duty day... or maybe at least the SDO and SDNCO.

This still does not address the need for the presence of rifles, which would be critical to combat a commando-style attack carried out against a military base.

I still don't understand why we don't allow armed soldiers to patrol our bases/posts. It seems an awful waste of trained manpower.

You see it all over in Europe. Perhaps this is the time to follow their example (granted, I don't feel comfortable following in their footsteps in any other matter). ;-)

Dix is only a 20 minute ride from my home, so the latest development feels quite uncomfortable

Unless things have changed dramaticly, the Air Force has always had armed SP's with M16's and sidearms patroling the base. Of course they are primarly protecting the flightline, alert areas and munition storage areas.

Yes, Mustang... and it is one of the areas that I will say the USAF does well... security.

My dad told me a story he heard once of an SP stationed at a missile silo during the Cold War. Supposedly a general came around for an inspection one day complete with entourage. He approached this particular SP's post and tried to pass, but stated he forgot his ID. The SP refused him access and the general tried to explain himself. Then, one of his captains tried to intimidate the SP with rank and such. The general again tried to pass, at which point the SP put a .45 pistol in the general's face and he politely re-stated his request for the general's ID. The captain was horrified and the general smiled and said, "well done, sergeant."

I like to think it's true. At least some people still appreciate effective security.