Friendly Advice

Gotta wonder who had security that day? Where were the aircrew who are always there to talk to the crowds.

I have a question for you wingnut. Your Cheif USAF guy had this to say about using non-lethal weapons on foreigners that have not been tested fully on people. Look at who he wants to use them on. And then look at who he is worried about in the end.

"If we're not willing to use it here against our fellow citizens, then we should not be willing to use it in a wartime situation," said Wynne. "(Because) if I hit somebody with a nonlethal weapon and they claim that it injured them in a way that was not intended, I think that I would be vilified in the world press."

You guys should be looking for better leadership. This guy is no good for the USAF or this country as long as he has control over the USAF.

How did they get so close to the Raptor? I thought it was still mostly classified?

Langley AFB is damn close to Oceana though, so I suppose it makes sense that Raptors would have a spot at their air show.

Ouch, who was pulling security that day? I remember seeing at least two "armed" AF guys around the F117 at recent airshows not so much for sensitive viewing but to keep fingerprints at bay. I would have had those three idiots licking-off their footprints before being escorted anywhere; but then again, that wouldn't be nice would it.......at least tazer the bastards!

They aren't wearing booties either. MO is gonna be pissed.

Two notes:

1) Bumper Sticker philosphy doesn't win converts...ever.
2) The first thing taught in any communication class is to "know your audience."

This kind of protester can only be looking for a fight; either to "prove" their point about the "other side" or to be made into a sort of psuedo-martyr.

1 - SeeMonk, non-lethal weaponry is tested using americans all the time. Do you think they ship mace, pepper spray and tasers to Iraq?

The tested subject is called a VOLUNTEER. Usually people involved with the development of the weapon. No big deal.

2 - to use the Raptor as a sopabox is a wise move. No thinking MP would fire at a $100 million aircraft, or risk a dent if he misses the hippie head when clubbing it.

As a retired Air Force officer, I am appalled that guards, Air Force or Navy, allowed anyone to climb on that airplane.

Someone should be court-martialled, or at least receive an Article 15 punishment.

That shot is probably doctored. There is no way those guys were able to get that close to an F-22 and unless they knew how to get on the wing, it would be pretty difficult for them. Perhaps the aircraft is a mock-up.

How does one get up there without a ladder?

http://theredhunter.com/images/IM000264.JPG

Given the politically correct nature of today's defense forces, it would be reasonable to ask these tresspassors to participate in some counseling maybe, or do a couple hours of community service. If the military can't kill Taliban massed at a funeral in Afghanistan, these protestors certainly shouldn't be punished.

Wall-to-wall counseling, hopefully.

I'm guessing the Raptor is a mockup. I was pretty surprised to see a Raptor at the Andrews AFB air show a couple years ago until I got close enough to see that it was a mockup. It's probably the same one. The Air Force is not gonna put an expensive prototype out on display without a rope line keeping the crowds back and a guard or two.

That said, you have to laugh at the way these knuckleheads pick their audience for their Comedy Protest Theater. My guess is that the crowds who gather at military air shows are likely to be the most pro-military civilian gatherings you can get next to veterans' reunions. Did these peace creeps really think that they might wave an anti-war banner at an air show and ten thousand people would smack their heads and change their minds? "Oh, that's right! An F-22 is a weapon of mass destruction even though it hasn't been used anywhere so maybe we should let the terrorists take over Iraq."

Why don't they just take their banner to an NRA rally or a NASCAR race? They'd get just as many converts there.

Thank goodness the peace dopes have the IQ of pudding. They are as ridiculous as their argument.

Tantor

I believe Oceana is something like a 30 second flight from the only operational Raptor squadrons at Langley AFB.

Which makes me believe it's probably the real thing...

Click the link: new 120 million dollar stealth fighters below the pic... it's the real thing.

The link - ie the News Story is the ONLY reason they did that. The target audience was not the assembled crowd, but the media and ITS audience.

Free publicity for their bumper sticker politics.

No big deal, they´re probably vegans, skinny and light. A small impulse and the hippie is stepping on a few hundred million dollars of tech and proud, because we all know those evil raptors chase children and innocent women...

let's be civil and nice...

and of course sue them, by the federal government for recovery of damages.

these include but are not limited to:

a complete resurfacing of the wing : $1,185,000
labor to arrest said trespassers: $ 3,000
paperwork involved in reporting incident: $ 4,000
JAG fees $101,000

make the penalty not chapter 7 applicable.

The Raptors have been at Langley for over a year - get to watch them fly just about every day. Nope, not a mock up, that was one of the regular, line aircraft.

As for speculation - dodged the Oceana event (hate crowds just to watch planes fly), but if I was guessing, the three bozos on the wing were probably not alone. There were probably accomplices to distract the guards, and probably accomplices to help boost them up onto the plane (it's not really that far off the ground - a leg up would suffice), and they did have at least one accomplice mentioned by the article linked (videographer).

I gotta agree with David that suing these bozos for costs would be a pretty good move. His numbers are probably high, but they'd probably be substantial - enough to put this in the range of a felony.

It's a real picture. The Raptor is from Langley. Navy SP's were providing security, and from what I understand they also provided some "encouragement" for the leftoid idiots to never try anything like that ever again.

"because we all know those evil raptors chase children and innocent women..."
Well, in fact, that is exactly what high-tech military aircraft do- kill women, children, terrorists, their guys, our guys, etc., all from a distant remove. Get a life people, while you can. Military technology is eventually going to kill all of us.

If there was any damage to that wing, I hope the protestors get charged for the full costs of repairs. If they want to be obnoxious and protest, fine, but not if they are responsible for damaging government property, they need to put their money where there mouths are.

I really hope they don't get a pass on this.

$122 million? Try $345 million.

"Program acquisition unit cost has doubled, from $149 million in $345 million in 2005. Program acquisition unit cost includes funding for development, procurement, related military construction, and initial modernization divided by total production quantity. It does not include later stage modernization costs and certain support costs."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-22-cost.htm

They actually let protestors get so close as to stand on the jet itself? What kind of security do we have?

Who knows, they could have sabotaged the plane - vandalized, done damage.

This really does seem strange that they got on the wing. OK, so my days are way back in the 80's, and on birds of, interest (E-4A/B, EC/RC-135, RC/MC-130, SR-71 and U-2), but no one would get ANYWHERE near a bird so close as to touch a wingtip. Even at airshows the distance was, respectable.

Are we becoming that complacent? That's the question I have - no fault to the security forces. This lies squarely at the feet of superiors etc ... who's the lame-brain that coordinated such a lax perimeter?

Sheesh ... I hope this photo is actually from the NY Times or Reuters! :) Photoshopped?! Please!

The "Program acquisition unit cost has doubled, from $149 million in $345 million in 2005" because program R&D costs are included in that "price". That money is a sunk cost, and since the number of Raptors being build was slashed, the per-unit R&D cost doubled. The actual manufacturing cost to build a jet is much, much less than the PAU cost.

I don't protest their Star Trek or Drag Queen conventions!

Since I was standing about 100 feet away that day, I can tell you that the photo is real. The F-22 was parked there as a static display, and was roped off to keep the crowd just out of touching distance. There were a handful of aircrew and other personnel with the jet during the day, but they were usually talking to people near the nose of the jet. It would have not been any problem whatsoever for several men to run through the rope and climb their way to the wing before anyone could react.

A little reality check here .. if the MPs did anything other than a procedural arrest (ie if they meted out punishment) then they and their supervising officers should be court martialled. Illegal actions by military officials only feeds the flames of military-haters. It is also damned unprofessional. The protesters are not the enemy.

Remember, the military services do just that - serve. Their mandate is to protect, not beat, citizens of our country.

No one would have paid any serious attention to a couple of clowns climbing up on an aircraft. Ignored, their "mission" would have failed. By reacting at all, nothing results other than a waste of the court's time (paid for by the taxpayer). The protesters could have been laughed off the plane and laughed out of the base. better yet, they should have been referred to a recruiter.

It did happen as I was there, I am thinking that they boosted each other up on the aft end.The flight crew was sitting at a promo table in front of the starboard wing and like the rest of us caught site of them as they started yelling.Security personel where onsite almost immediatly and the biggest problem they had was keeping infuriated airshow spectators from doing bodily harm to these clowns.I am of the opinion that the 3 may have been hired out for this stunt as all of them looked more to me as being homeless types and smelled terrible.As they were driven away in the van, they were spat upon and security K-9 handlers were used for crowd control.AF should have had better security as the Raptors RAM surfaces are easily damaged.Sunday had 4-6 M-4 toting AF personal at all 4 corners of the tape line and it was not a mock up aircraft as we witnessed it during our practice flight as it arrived.

What a great missed opportunity: they could've strapped these three guys down to the wing, taken off for a few loops in the sky, these guys trailing their banner behind.

Freedom of speech? Fuck freedom of speech! fuck all freedom, what we need is security from wackos like these guys!!

Booo freedom, booooo!! Yeah God!

By the way isnt it wierd how like, you know, how ironic it is that we have to give up frredom because we are too afraid to have it anymore. Wierd, its like them liberal bastards are the brave ones and we are just like...afraid to live up to the standard of being free.

You know like not having everything we do be monitored, tracked, recorded and deciding torturing others is okay as long as it keeps me safe. My poor great grandfather was silly enough to fight for an america that fought to destroy torturers and folks that wanted to get rid of the inconvenience of a constitution. That poor poor stupid and silly bastard...but a brave one. Now me, well, I got my football and beer and hotdogs and cable tv so fuck freedom, just dont let me risk losing cable for the sake of freedom for christ sake. Hoorah!!!

uh, what?

John: I'm a bit jealous.

I NEVER get loonies that far out there on my site.

Well done!

autoloans autoloans

Yes, Gentlemen, it was real. I was there also. Yes, security should have been better. But like the rest of us who were watching in awe of the Blue Angels, who would have thought someone would be so bold as to climb up on the aircraft. The guys were boo-ed by the crowd and everyone applauded when the MP's took them off the wing. My husband took the same picture. I have the same photo. I am from WV and was there on vacation and what gets me is TV 13 didn't even carry the story and they were one of the sponsors. As a matter of fact I didn't see the story on any local news, did anyone else see it on the local news or newspaper?
sheila

Yes, Gentlemen, it was real. I was there also. Yes, security should have been better. But like the rest of us who were watching in awe of the Blue Angels, who would have thought someone would be so bold as to climb up on the aircraft. The guys were boo-ed by the crowd and everyone applauded when the MP's took them off the wing. My husband took the same picture. I have the same photo. I am from WV and was there on vacation and what gets me is TV 13 didn't even carry the story and they were one of the sponsors. As a matter of fact I didn't see the story on any local news, did anyone else see it on the local news or newspaper?
sheila

Once and for all...this was VERY real as is the A/C in the picture. These loonies took their lives in their hands doing this jackass stunt and all it did was strengthen the resolve ofthe rest of us. I can not stress to you enough the professionalism and restraint shown by the NAS Oceana Police. The Air Force insisted on bringing their own security detail for this event and someone is getting an ass chewing. Bottom line they fell aslepp at the wheel.

Yes, This was real, but to clear some of this up. Air Force was watching their own plane, Naval security forces responded when the threat occured. Naval security removed these people for the Air Force.

Oh man, this makes me cringe. It also makes me think of all of the, "Use of deadly force authorized beyond this point." signs we have around the flightline here...